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"We'll reveal incriminating information to the police unless you pay us $500 and perform this service," is pretty textbook blackmail. The law often doesn't mak

"We'll reveal incriminating information to the police unless you pay us $500 and perform this service," is pretty textbook blackmail. The law often doesn't make any distinction about the type of action because it relies on prosecutorial discretion for that. The problem is that they aren't involving the courts. Specifically, there's no trial or court proceedings to determine the facts of the case or to ensure that the offender's rights are being protected. The offender doesn't get the right to an attorney. They aren't guaranteed to know all the evidence against themselves. There's no way to know that a given Walmart store isn't blackmailing it's customers. If Walmart started a nationwide program which provided these services to any shoplifter as an alternative program that a judge could sentence the offender to or that a prosecutor could recommend, it would be perfectly fine and may have the same effect in reducing recidivism for shoplifting at Walmart and other stores. The problem is that it's all taking place behind closed doors, so there's no way to know that it's not blackmail. It's not even necessarily in the best interest of the general pubic. It means that people who shoplift aren't being tracked, meaning when they do re-offend and get caught they appear to be first time offenders to the state. Furthermore, there's no way to know what criteria Walmart is using for this program. Even ignoring the fact that at $500 it's a get-out-of-jail-free card is only for middle class and upper class individuals, what if Walmart only offers the program to whites or women but always prosecutes blacks, Hispanics, and homosexuals? In reality, if we want first time offenders to get lesser charges or face lesser punishment, then we need to change the actual law and reduce the actual punishment for the crime. If the law is unfair, the answer is to change the law, not to find ways around it. This is the exact same reason the police argument against body cameras -- lack of police discretion -- is bullshit. If the laws are unjust or don't best serve the public, the answer isn't to allow uneven enforcement. That just leads to abuse!

lr4444lr 9y ago
Take Walmart out of the equation for a second. Let's say an 18 year old breaks into an old man's house to perform some routine youth mischief, and in the process trips and breaks his leg. The old man catches him. He has a choice: call the cops and report a break-in, giving the kid a record, or sternly rebuke the lad and tell him that if he fixes the damage he caused and comes back to perform some other maintenance on his house, a little painting and power washing, mowing the grass for a bit, he'll accept the guy means well and just write it off what happened as a wayward joke. Because what's really at stake here is that this crime is defined by acting against the victim's consent over his property. It's not that Walmart (or the old man) is empowered to dispense criminal justice; it's that the prosecution need the property owner to confirm on record that there was a violation of property in order to have any case at all.
- da_chicken 9y ago
  Ok, and what if the man says, "And pay me $10." Is that blackmail? What about $100? $1,000? $10,000? Or what's to stop the man from continuing to demand additional services? Or lying and pressing charges on the kid after the fact? What if it's a 17 year old kid? 14? 10? You see that there's a line here that isn't obvious between, "I'll decline to press charges if you do me a small favor," and, "I'm going to blackmail you." That's why the law doesn't make a distinction. Assuming that the victim of an attempted burglary or attempted shoplifting is going to be magnanimous and reasonable when they've just been victimized is not at all a safe assumption.
  - lr4444lr 9y ago
    IANAL. But no, I suspect it does not count as blackmail. The man is within his rights to press charges. But once the kid comes back to the house and does extra work, it'd be pretty obvious to the authorities that there some sort of verbal agreement to settle the matter if the old man tries to renege and press charges, even if not a written one. I also suspect that a number of people caught in the actual situation at hand with Walmart have had some lawyers among their friends and family whom they thought they might question about a blackmail angle, and the fact that Walmart has kept up his policy is likely evidence that it's been tried and failed. Shopkeeper's Privilege[0] and its related proceedings is actually a pretty interesting corner of the law. [0]https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/shopkeepers-privilege/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/shopkeepers-privilege/
    - shkkmo 9y ago
      >IANAL. But no, I suspect it does not count as blackmail. California Superior Court Judge Harold Kahn is a lawyer and says it is extortion (at least under California law). > the fact that Walmart has kept up his policy Walmart has not maintained the policy. Joe Schrauder, the retailer’s new vice president of asset protection and safety has removed this program from all Walmart stores.

lr4444lr 9y ago

Take Walmart out of the equation for a second. Let's say an 18 year old breaks into an old man's house to perform some routine youth mischief, and in the process trips and breaks his leg. The old man catches him. He has a choice: call the cops and report a break-in, giving the kid a record, or sternly rebuke the lad and tell him that if he fixes the damage he caused and comes back to perform some other maintenance on his house, a little painting and power washing, mowing the grass for a bit, he'll accept the guy means well and just write it off what happened as a wayward joke. Because what's really at stake here is that this crime is defined by acting against the victim's consent over his property. It's not that Walmart (or the old man) is empowered to dispense criminal justice; it's that the prosecution need the property owner to confirm on record that there was a violation of property in order to have any case at all.

da_chicken 9y ago
Ok, and what if the man says, "And pay me $10." Is that blackmail? What about $100? $1,000? $10,000? Or what's to stop the man from continuing to demand additional services? Or lying and pressing charges on the kid after the fact? What if it's a 17 year old kid? 14? 10? You see that there's a line here that isn't obvious between, "I'll decline to press charges if you do me a small favor," and, "I'm going to blackmail you." That's why the law doesn't make a distinction. Assuming that the victim of an attempted burglary or attempted shoplifting is going to be magnanimous and reasonable when they've just been victimized is not at all a safe assumption.
- lr4444lr 9y ago
  IANAL. But no, I suspect it does not count as blackmail. The man is within his rights to press charges. But once the kid comes back to the house and does extra work, it'd be pretty obvious to the authorities that there some sort of verbal agreement to settle the matter if the old man tries to renege and press charges, even if not a written one. I also suspect that a number of people caught in the actual situation at hand with Walmart have had some lawyers among their friends and family whom they thought they might question about a blackmail angle, and the fact that Walmart has kept up his policy is likely evidence that it's been tried and failed. Shopkeeper's Privilege[0] and its related proceedings is actually a pretty interesting corner of the law. [0]https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/shopkeepers-privilege/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/shopkeepers-privilege/
  - shkkmo 9y ago
    >IANAL. But no, I suspect it does not count as blackmail. California Superior Court Judge Harold Kahn is a lawyer and says it is extortion (at least under California law). > the fact that Walmart has kept up his policy Walmart has not maintained the policy. Joe Schrauder, the retailer’s new vice president of asset protection and safety has removed this program from all Walmart stores.