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You realize that your perception of what your friends went through is driven by your own personal situation, and not that of millennials at-large, right? Your

You realize that your perception of what your friends went through is driven by your own personal situation, and not that of millennials at-large, right? Your friends, I assume, were rich kids, or at least comfortably middle-class. The problems my friends dealt with in high school weren't trivial. They dealt with divorce, drug addiction, alcoholic parents, unwanted pregnancies, struggles with poverty, bullying... To me the notion that they never had to learn how to deal with failure is ridiculous. The class gap is enormous, and I've lived a life where I've been intimately acquainted with both sides of it. Besides, it's not me I'm worried about here. I'm worried about the people around me. I'm one of the lucky millennials who has a tech job. It's my friends who are struggling to eat.

mbrumlow 9y ago
First off by no means rich for the friends, and for me I was on food stamps and living in s single parent family with 2 children and a mother making less than 16k a year. The problem is that the things you speak you do so as if they are not extraordinary -- these are things that all walks of people have to deal with, rich or poor (minus the poverty one). These also are not personal failures, and are not the type of failures I am talking about. And no, the perception of my friends situation has nothing to do with my personal situation. These are reflections I had long after the situation and emotion removed from the conversation. If you are fine -- that is awesome -- then please pass on to your friends to let their group identity keep them down. There are many jobs -- maybe not the one they want to do, or thought they wanted to do -- that today with 2 years of cheap training can bring in some real cash. I will take my brother as a example. He dealt with EVERY ONE OF THE THINGS on your list, every last one! And today he is successful at what he does, but man does he have to work hard- much harder than I do (I am in tech as well). He took classes to be come a AC repair man, and now runs his own company. Did he make shit money at first? For sure, everybody does, but as he gained skill and saved money he was able to finally go out on his own and now has 6 people working for him. Not once did he say "I can't because ... I was bullied, I can't because ... I grew up on food stamps, I can't because ... my father was a abusive alcoholic, and I can't ... because my parents divorced (twice)", I can't because just are not words in his vocabulary. And you sort of prove my point about some thing when you bring up that THOSE experiences, the things that many many many successful people experience are the things you sight as keeping your friends down today. While horrible life experiences are some times out of our control, how you deal with them and what you do next is.
- aalleavitch 9y ago
  I think there's a mismatch in what we're each trying to convey here. I understand very well how people can struggle through incredible odds and still manage to make success for themselves. I think such stories are deeply inspiring, and I likewise hold to a philosophy of never giving in despite the uphill climb you face. But I'm not concerned with personal motivation here, I'm concerned with systemic issues that need to be addressed, and that I believe can be addressed. Personal motivation is a non-sequitur. The idea that if people in a disadvantaged group were just motivated enough they have an equal chance to succeed is trivially false: the entire reason they're considered part of a disadvantaged group is because their chance of good outcomes is statistically lower than other groups. Demotivating factors certainly play a part in this, but the idea that their disadvantage would disappear if they just thought about things the right way is silly in the extreme (not to mention unsupported by data). You usually don't have to dig far to find an actual obstruction to the success of the group. And if we have the capability of removing this obstruction, why wouldn't we?
  - joejerryronnie 9y ago
    Are you including millennials in the list of systematically disadvantaged groups like minorities, women, handicapped, etc? I'm not even sure what to say to that.

mbrumlow 9y ago

First off by no means rich for the friends, and for me I was on food stamps and living in s single parent family with 2 children and a mother making less than 16k a year. The problem is that the things you speak you do so as if they are not extraordinary -- these are things that all walks of people have to deal with, rich or poor (minus the poverty one). These also are not personal failures, and are not the type of failures I am talking about. And no, the perception of my friends situation has nothing to do with my personal situation. These are reflections I had long after the situation and emotion removed from the conversation. If you are fine -- that is awesome -- then please pass on to your friends to let their group identity keep them down. There are many jobs -- maybe not the one they want to do, or thought they wanted to do -- that today with 2 years of cheap training can bring in some real cash. I will take my brother as a example. He dealt with EVERY ONE OF THE THINGS on your list, every last one! And today he is successful at what he does, but man does he have to work hard- much harder than I do (I am in tech as well). He took classes to be come a AC repair man, and now runs his own company. Did he make shit money at first? For sure, everybody does, but as he gained skill and saved money he was able to finally go out on his own and now has 6 people working for him. Not once did he say "I can't because ... I was bullied, I can't because ... I grew up on food stamps, I can't because ... my father was a abusive alcoholic, and I can't ... because my parents divorced (twice)", I can't because just are not words in his vocabulary. And you sort of prove my point about some thing when you bring up that THOSE experiences, the things that many many many successful people experience are the things you sight as keeping your friends down today. While horrible life experiences are some times out of our control, how you deal with them and what you do next is.

aalleavitch 9y ago
I think there's a mismatch in what we're each trying to convey here. I understand very well how people can struggle through incredible odds and still manage to make success for themselves. I think such stories are deeply inspiring, and I likewise hold to a philosophy of never giving in despite the uphill climb you face. But I'm not concerned with personal motivation here, I'm concerned with systemic issues that need to be addressed, and that I believe can be addressed. Personal motivation is a non-sequitur. The idea that if people in a disadvantaged group were just motivated enough they have an equal chance to succeed is trivially false: the entire reason they're considered part of a disadvantaged group is because their chance of good outcomes is statistically lower than other groups. Demotivating factors certainly play a part in this, but the idea that their disadvantage would disappear if they just thought about things the right way is silly in the extreme (not to mention unsupported by data). You usually don't have to dig far to find an actual obstruction to the success of the group. And if we have the capability of removing this obstruction, why wouldn't we?
- joejerryronnie 9y ago
  Are you including millennials in the list of systematically disadvantaged groups like minorities, women, handicapped, etc? I'm not even sure what to say to that.