6 ms·

Sold a significant amount, or like 40K worth? I'm curious about people cashing about significant values and converting to USD.

by taude 9y ago

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
If you’re cashing out more than $100,000 in crypto currency, you have the resources and the reason to hire a tax lawyer. They will, in addition to ensuring you don’t piss off the IRS, help you mollify any AML concerns.
- taude 9y ago
  Thanks. That's good to know. I have friends who've been surfing crypto for the past year, and they seem to a) not be worried about much, but also b) have no clue on what they're doing.
- phil21 9y ago
  > They will, in addition to ensuring you don’t piss off the IRS, help you mollify any AML concerns. Hmm? I'm not sure how a tax attorney would mollify any AML concerns on the exchanges. Customers have zero AML concerns, they just want their money. I totally agree a tax attorney is a thing you need at that level. Disagree they will be helpful in any meaningful way in getting your money out of an exchange account - they are irrelevant to that process. A good tax attorney with crypto experience should be able to direct you to a vetted and legit OTC trade desk/counterparty though. That lets you avoid the exchanges entirely.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > I'm not sure how a tax attorney would mollify any AML concerns on the exchanges Exchanges and banks need to verify you aren’t laundering money. You want them to verify this quickly. A competent lawyer can help you prepare the necessary paperwork and, in a pinch, explain things to a bank’s or exchange’s compliance officer over the phone. That increases your credibility and in turn odds of getting approved quickly.
    - phil21 9y ago
      > compliance officer over the phone I think this shows a bit of naivety on your part, unfortunately. No compliance officer at any public exchange is picking up the phone over a $100k customer. I'd be surprised if anyone - including 8 figure clients - can get such a person on the phone right now. I personally know of cases where 7 figures are locked up with zero way to contact a human. Typically it's so far working out in most cases I know of, but having that much tied up for 60+ days with almost no communication (attorney or not) can be a bit nerve wracking for most. I do agree re: your point on documentation, that certainly can be helpful.
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > No compliance officer at any public exchange is picking up the phone over a $100k customer At the exchanges you may have trouble. Many of them lack proper compliance departments. There are, however, response requirements under U.S. law your attorney will be knowledgeable about. At a bank, contacting compliance is trivial if you know how to use the relevant public databases. There are also questions about structuring, e.g. transferring the coins to a multi-member LLC and then cashing out into it, that could be relevant for one’s jurisdiction. All that said, having documents in order is a huge plus. Incomplete AML and KYC documents tend to go to the bottom of the priority pile and top of the risk pile.
        phil21 9y ago
        Completely agreed. I haven't seen many cases where the banks are holding funds up due to AML/KYC, so I was 100% focused on exchanges. You're absolutely correct - when dealing with actual financial institutions just have a Real Lawyer(tm) do that for you or you're very likely to have a bad time.
  - gst 9y ago
    How would a tax attorney help in simple cases where you're e.g. selling some BTC that you've been holding for some time? Declaring capital gains yourself isn't that hard if you keep accurate records.
    - phil21 9y ago
      Depends on how simple your case is. If you have a simple buy at X and sell at Y you are pretty much correct. If you say - mined your coins back in 2011 - and never did any accounting of that income at that time, if you want to be able to claim capital gains vs. regular income you are going to find a pretty clued-in tax attorney to do such a thing. Even worse if you were an early adopter and started spending coins/trading with folks back when it was all magic internet money. Did you account for those 50BTC you sent as a tip to that software dev you enjoyed? It was $100 at the time, so I doubt many people were keeping careful records. What if you started trading on mtgox or bitstamp or whatnot 5 years ago? Did you account for all those trades as income at the time even if you never cashed out USD to your bank account? All in all it depends on your situation.
gwillen 9y ago
If you're regularly selling amounts more than 25k USD worth, don't use an exchange. Try these guys, for example: https://genesistrading.com https://genesistrading.com

Sold a significant amount, or like 40K worth? I'm curious about people cashing about significant values and converting to USD.

by taude 9y ago

Sold a significant amount, or like 40K worth? I'm curious about people cashing about significant values and converting to USD.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

If you’re cashing out more than $100,000 in crypto currency, you have the resources and the reason to hire a tax lawyer. They will, in addition to ensuring you don’t piss off the IRS, help you mollify any AML concerns.

taude 9y ago
Thanks. That's good to know. I have friends who've been surfing crypto for the past year, and they seem to a) not be worried about much, but also b) have no clue on what they're doing.
phil21 9y ago
> They will, in addition to ensuring you don’t piss off the IRS, help you mollify any AML concerns. Hmm? I'm not sure how a tax attorney would mollify any AML concerns on the exchanges. Customers have zero AML concerns, they just want their money. I totally agree a tax attorney is a thing you need at that level. Disagree they will be helpful in any meaningful way in getting your money out of an exchange account - they are irrelevant to that process. A good tax attorney with crypto experience should be able to direct you to a vetted and legit OTC trade desk/counterparty though. That lets you avoid the exchanges entirely.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I'm not sure how a tax attorney would mollify any AML concerns on the exchanges Exchanges and banks need to verify you aren’t laundering money. You want them to verify this quickly. A competent lawyer can help you prepare the necessary paperwork and, in a pinch, explain things to a bank’s or exchange’s compliance officer over the phone. That increases your credibility and in turn odds of getting approved quickly.
  - phil21 9y ago
    > compliance officer over the phone I think this shows a bit of naivety on your part, unfortunately. No compliance officer at any public exchange is picking up the phone over a $100k customer. I'd be surprised if anyone - including 8 figure clients - can get such a person on the phone right now. I personally know of cases where 7 figures are locked up with zero way to contact a human. Typically it's so far working out in most cases I know of, but having that much tied up for 60+ days with almost no communication (attorney or not) can be a bit nerve wracking for most. I do agree re: your point on documentation, that certainly can be helpful.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > No compliance officer at any public exchange is picking up the phone over a $100k customer At the exchanges you may have trouble. Many of them lack proper compliance departments. There are, however, response requirements under U.S. law your attorney will be knowledgeable about. At a bank, contacting compliance is trivial if you know how to use the relevant public databases. There are also questions about structuring, e.g. transferring the coins to a multi-member LLC and then cashing out into it, that could be relevant for one’s jurisdiction. All that said, having documents in order is a huge plus. Incomplete AML and KYC documents tend to go to the bottom of the priority pile and top of the risk pile.
      - phil21 9y ago
        Completely agreed. I haven't seen many cases where the banks are holding funds up due to AML/KYC, so I was 100% focused on exchanges. You're absolutely correct - when dealing with actual financial institutions just have a Real Lawyer(tm) do that for you or you're very likely to have a bad time.
- gst 9y ago
  How would a tax attorney help in simple cases where you're e.g. selling some BTC that you've been holding for some time? Declaring capital gains yourself isn't that hard if you keep accurate records.
  - phil21 9y ago
    Depends on how simple your case is. If you have a simple buy at X and sell at Y you are pretty much correct. If you say - mined your coins back in 2011 - and never did any accounting of that income at that time, if you want to be able to claim capital gains vs. regular income you are going to find a pretty clued-in tax attorney to do such a thing. Even worse if you were an early adopter and started spending coins/trading with folks back when it was all magic internet money. Did you account for those 50BTC you sent as a tip to that software dev you enjoyed? It was $100 at the time, so I doubt many people were keeping careful records. What if you started trading on mtgox or bitstamp or whatnot 5 years ago? Did you account for all those trades as income at the time even if you never cashed out USD to your bank account? All in all it depends on your situation.

gwillen 9y ago

If you're regularly selling amounts more than 25k USD worth, don't use an exchange. Try these guys, for example: https://genesistrading.com https://genesistrading.com