4 ms·

What is this? What are you doing here? Millennials got "whiny" and "self-righteous" because we're actively under attack. The problem we have is not that we have

What is this? What are you doing here? Millennials got "whiny" and "self-righteous" because we're actively under attack. The problem we have is not that we have struggles, every generation has had struggles; the problem is that the response to our attempts to rectify this situation is exactly the kind of derision you're showing here. You're essentially doing the same thing as calling a 1960s civil rights activist "uppity". You're even agreeing with the existence of the issues I'm raising and the need to speak out but feel some emotional need to respond to my perceived tone with an attack on a baseless stereotype. Why is the response to the statement "millennials have problems" so commonly angry and defensive?

malvosenior 9y ago
> Why is the response to the statement "millennials have problems" so commonly angry and defensive? I can’t speak for the person you’re asking, but I think the answer to this question is that the proposed answer to “millennials have problems” is often: more regulation and government involvement. Some people feel very strongly that this is the wrong move and it will directly impact them.
- aalleavitch 9y ago
  Many of millennials' problems specifically stem from a lack of government regulation. They're locked into temp jobs and self-employment because they reached adulthood in a recession driven by financial deregulation. They face massive invasions of privacy and personal autonomy as a result of lacking sufficient regulations on the usage of their personal data. They face brutally unfair treatment at the hands of tech companies giving them temp work (like Uber and Instacart) without regulations on their treatment of workers (which, by the way, artificially inflate the jobs numbers: no one thinks uber driver is a career, it is a way to be able to eat). And now we face an end to an open internet (one of the few ways to reliably start a small business) because of a lack of FCC regulation. Libertarians need to wrap their heads around the fact that sometimes regulations are deeply necessary.
  - EdSharkey 9y ago
    In the abstract, your opinion sounds reasonable, even righteous. Unfortunately, there's just too many actual, concrete examples of regulation locking vulnerable individuals out of markets, of property being unjustly seized/devalued, etc. Calling out libertarians isn't constructive when they're simply reacting in their own way to wrong-sized government. They dont respond to corrupt, shitty leadership with muddled "at least they meant well" excuses.
    - aalleavitch 9y ago
      But this is somehow the state of the discourse right now! It's laid out purely in extremes. People aren't even entertaining what ought to be the obvious conclusion given the data: there are good and bad regulations. The existence of bad regulations does not wipe out the existence of good regulations, and vice versa. Instead when I suggest that there are beneficial regulations we can put in place that would benefit a large portion of Americans, people get defensive about it! This doesn't preclude the notion that regulations can be done poorly, and that some regulations are even actively harmful. But when making arguments people rarely want to consider more than just the extreme positions.
      - EdSharkey 9y ago
        Right, and there's truth in what you say - especially wrt extremism. Your argument brings to mind the argument that "capitalism isn't the problem, crony capitalism is". Like, if only powerful people wouldn't lie, cheat, steal and write the rules to apply differently for them. I will concede that, on a limited basis, government - specifically in the regulatory (and law enforcement) capacity - can do some good. I'm more pessimistic than you though and believe that the vast majority of new laws are not written for my benefit, and most of the time we - the society as a whole - would be better off without more rules. It's not about my trusting my fellow citizen more than the ruling class, my position is about my distrust of and opposition to busybodies and cronies. If you believe - for whatever reasons - that laws are not written nor enforced for your benefit, then maybe libertarianism isn't the worst thing. And that's all I was driving at.
  - 9y ago
joejerryronnie 9y ago
>Why is the response to the statement "millennials have problems" so commonly angry and defensive? Because many millennials want to have their cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways: - You can't choose to attend an $80,000 per year private liberal arts school and then complain you have too much student debt - You can't move to the most expensive place in the country with no money and a low paying job and then complain it's too expensive - You can't regularly use convenient and artificially cheap gig-economy services (like Uber and Instacart) and then complain when their business model doesn't support giving you a $150,000 a year job - You can't demand free speech protection and then violently oppress viewpoints you disagree with (for the record, I am a political moderate) The Millennial hypocrisy is astounding, but I'm sure every generation goes through this to some extent. The real generational moment of revelation is when you realize that every choice you make has consequences - and not just the choices/consequences you choose to believe. If I buy a cheap toy at Walmart, I know that some labor exploitation was involved. If I buy fruit at Costco, I know that burning of fossil fuels is involved. If I choose to use Google services, my data will be exploited for profit. What everyone is asking Millennials to do is take some responsibility, acknowledge that your actions are part of the problem, and that you have some power to drive solutions. It's fine to lament about some level of inequity handed down from previous generations, we have all done it. What everyone is getting a little tired of is the classic Millennial argument that paints an entire generation as helpless victims and essentially says "You did this to us and now we want you to make the bad man go away!" Kind of like an entire generation of Robin Arryns for all you Game of Thrones fans.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > You can't choose to attend an $80,000 per year private liberal arts school and then complain you have too much student debt 1. This assumes that everyone went to a private liberal arts college, which isn't true. 2. Historically a degree wasn't as necessary because employers actually provided growth potential and entry-level positions to people. Those aren't options for millennials. That kind of forces people to get degrees to have any chance of economic growth. > You can't move to the most expensive place in the country with no money and a low paying job and then complain it's too expensive If those are the only regions of the country experiencing economic growth, then what else are they supposed to do? Work in Dollar General in a city of 12,000 people their whole life? > You can't regularly use convenient and artificially cheap gig-economy services (like Uber and Instacart) and then complain when their business model doesn't support giving you a $150,000 a year job People will always use the cheapest or most efficient option when it comes to purchasing services or items. It's not their fault that such services are legal, it's the government's. > You can't demand free speech protection and then violently oppress viewpoints you disagree with. I agree with you here. The internet has made it so that those who complain the most are perceived to be the majority when they're not.

malvosenior 9y ago

> Why is the response to the statement "millennials have problems" so commonly angry and defensive? I can’t speak for the person you’re asking, but I think the answer to this question is that the proposed answer to “millennials have problems” is often: more regulation and government involvement. Some people feel very strongly that this is the wrong move and it will directly impact them.

aalleavitch 9y ago
Many of millennials' problems specifically stem from a lack of government regulation. They're locked into temp jobs and self-employment because they reached adulthood in a recession driven by financial deregulation. They face massive invasions of privacy and personal autonomy as a result of lacking sufficient regulations on the usage of their personal data. They face brutally unfair treatment at the hands of tech companies giving them temp work (like Uber and Instacart) without regulations on their treatment of workers (which, by the way, artificially inflate the jobs numbers: no one thinks uber driver is a career, it is a way to be able to eat). And now we face an end to an open internet (one of the few ways to reliably start a small business) because of a lack of FCC regulation. Libertarians need to wrap their heads around the fact that sometimes regulations are deeply necessary.
- EdSharkey 9y ago
  In the abstract, your opinion sounds reasonable, even righteous. Unfortunately, there's just too many actual, concrete examples of regulation locking vulnerable individuals out of markets, of property being unjustly seized/devalued, etc. Calling out libertarians isn't constructive when they're simply reacting in their own way to wrong-sized government. They dont respond to corrupt, shitty leadership with muddled "at least they meant well" excuses.
  - aalleavitch 9y ago
    But this is somehow the state of the discourse right now! It's laid out purely in extremes. People aren't even entertaining what ought to be the obvious conclusion given the data: there are good and bad regulations. The existence of bad regulations does not wipe out the existence of good regulations, and vice versa. Instead when I suggest that there are beneficial regulations we can put in place that would benefit a large portion of Americans, people get defensive about it! This doesn't preclude the notion that regulations can be done poorly, and that some regulations are even actively harmful. But when making arguments people rarely want to consider more than just the extreme positions.
    - EdSharkey 9y ago
      Right, and there's truth in what you say - especially wrt extremism. Your argument brings to mind the argument that "capitalism isn't the problem, crony capitalism is". Like, if only powerful people wouldn't lie, cheat, steal and write the rules to apply differently for them. I will concede that, on a limited basis, government - specifically in the regulatory (and law enforcement) capacity - can do some good. I'm more pessimistic than you though and believe that the vast majority of new laws are not written for my benefit, and most of the time we - the society as a whole - would be better off without more rules. It's not about my trusting my fellow citizen more than the ruling class, my position is about my distrust of and opposition to busybodies and cronies. If you believe - for whatever reasons - that laws are not written nor enforced for your benefit, then maybe libertarianism isn't the worst thing. And that's all I was driving at.
- 9y ago

joejerryronnie 9y ago

>Why is the response to the statement "millennials have problems" so commonly angry and defensive? Because many millennials want to have their cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways: - You can't choose to attend an $80,000 per year private liberal arts school and then complain you have too much student debt - You can't move to the most expensive place in the country with no money and a low paying job and then complain it's too expensive - You can't regularly use convenient and artificially cheap gig-economy services (like Uber and Instacart) and then complain when their business model doesn't support giving you a $150,000 a year job - You can't demand free speech protection and then violently oppress viewpoints you disagree with (for the record, I am a political moderate) The Millennial hypocrisy is astounding, but I'm sure every generation goes through this to some extent. The real generational moment of revelation is when you realize that every choice you make has consequences - and not just the choices/consequences you choose to believe. If I buy a cheap toy at Walmart, I know that some labor exploitation was involved. If I buy fruit at Costco, I know that burning of fossil fuels is involved. If I choose to use Google services, my data will be exploited for profit. What everyone is asking Millennials to do is take some responsibility, acknowledge that your actions are part of the problem, and that you have some power to drive solutions. It's fine to lament about some level of inequity handed down from previous generations, we have all done it. What everyone is getting a little tired of is the classic Millennial argument that paints an entire generation as helpless victims and essentially says "You did this to us and now we want you to make the bad man go away!" Kind of like an entire generation of Robin Arryns for all you Game of Thrones fans.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> You can't choose to attend an $80,000 per year private liberal arts school and then complain you have too much student debt 1. This assumes that everyone went to a private liberal arts college, which isn't true. 2. Historically a degree wasn't as necessary because employers actually provided growth potential and entry-level positions to people. Those aren't options for millennials. That kind of forces people to get degrees to have any chance of economic growth. > You can't move to the most expensive place in the country with no money and a low paying job and then complain it's too expensive If those are the only regions of the country experiencing economic growth, then what else are they supposed to do? Work in Dollar General in a city of 12,000 people their whole life? > You can't regularly use convenient and artificially cheap gig-economy services (like Uber and Instacart) and then complain when their business model doesn't support giving you a $150,000 a year job People will always use the cheapest or most efficient option when it comes to purchasing services or items. It's not their fault that such services are legal, it's the government's. > You can't demand free speech protection and then violently oppress viewpoints you disagree with. I agree with you here. The internet has made it so that those who complain the most are perceived to be the majority when they're not.