6 ms·

You think being a consultant is as rare as becoming an actor?

by putnam 9y ago

CyberDildonics 9y ago
He used an exaggerated metaphor to illustrate that pragmatically, not everyone can market themselves to become well known, no matter how good they are at writing software. You then turned that into an irrelevant comparison of the difficulty of becoming an actor vs a consultant.
- putnam 9y ago
  Thank you. Do you think that someone who is good at writing software can not learn to market themselves to become well known?
  - mgkimsal 9y ago
    Not the OP, but my own experience is that it's a more uncommon skill than I first thought. I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. I'm not at all saying all 'consultants' are great at this either - 'consultants' work for 'big 5' firms and are just sent out on engagements, which isn't quite the 'consultant' we're talking about here (the word means many things). I've worked with people on projects who couldn't sense when the other people in the room were veering off topic and not understanding a response. Also worked with people who could not ever understand they themselves were going offtopic and/or not understanding what the clients were saying. Talking to hear yourself talk is a big one. Not being able to adjust yourself to the project is a project (if you're working with a small $2m company of 10 people, repeating anecdotes from your $100m engagements isn't impressive, it's ... annoying and/or off-topic). Not delivering when you say you will. Not calling people back when you say you will. Blaming everyone else but yourself - these are all problems I've seen (and experienced) myself as an independent consultant. Easier to mask/hide when you're "just" doing development as an internal employee someplace. Also... you posted this and have asked a lot of questions. If you want to talk more offline, email me.
    - BeetleB 9y ago
      >I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. Of course most are like that: How much effort did they put in to become skilled developers, and how much on the business savvy? I'm guessing years on the former, and perhaps hours on the latter? It's not that people can't develop those skills. It's that few want to, or realize that they have to.
      - mcguire 9y ago
        Then there's that old joke about getting a girlfriend and having your .emacs go to shit.
      - mgkimsal 9y ago
        > It's not that people can't develop those skills. It's that few want to, or realize that they have to I sort of agree, but ... we all know the people who try to get in to programming/development, but just never get it. They can try, and maybe even land a jr role some place, but it never really clicks, regardless of how long they work at it. I think the non-tech skills are like that in some measure as well. Also, while I'm probably switching examples a bit, I'm not sure how much experience you need practicing skills like showing up on time, or answering emails (and without being rude or condescending). There may be people who need to "practice" not insulting clients' employees in emails to the same client, but I'm not sure how much practice one should need to have basic empathic ability. If you don't have some of that, how many years do you need "practicing" those skills?
        BeetleB 9y ago
        >I think the non-tech skills are like that in some measure as well. The difference is that to do very well in tech/programming, you have to be well above the average. For a lot of non-tech skills, merely being a bit above the average will get you far. In the context of this discussion, the primary skill the consultant has is still his technical skills. He merely upped his non-tech skills enough to prevent it from being a barrier.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Some can, some can't, but realistically, even if everyone were turning out articles as good as Steve Yegge's they couldn't all achieve the same name recognition. If you want another example look at mobile app stores. Surely there were thousands of games just as good as Flappy Bird that you've never heard of.
    - putnam 9y ago
      Who is Steve Yegge?
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        Formerly one of the most prominent programming bloggers but he has been inactive for a while.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    "Can not learn?" No. Not interested in / willing to spend the time to do it? Marketing yourself is a full time job.
AFNobody 9y ago
A consultant making 5 figures a week, in practical terms, is a unicorn that is not reliably repeatable. Most people cannot maintain that level of marketing while maintaining an income (as a consultant) effectively. If they could, every programmer would try to transition into making 5 figures a week as a consultant instead of making $100-200k with a stable job. The $4k/week thing isn't since pretty much any decent consultant can command $100/hr which is what that weekly billing works out to.
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  That person making 5 figures per week often doesn't need or want to be working 'repeatably' or have a full schedule. A couple folks I know charge $15k-$20k/week, but they only care to take on a few of those per year, while pursuing other interests (other business ideas, etc). Even $30k/week is still selling time for money, and "isn't scalable" - maxing out at $1.5m/year even fully booked, which few are.
  - putnam 9y ago
    Are they in-person jobs?
  - AFNobody 9y ago
    I'm talking about number of people able to do it rather than the specific individuals who have gotten into that position.
- putnam 9y ago
  Why can they not maintain that level of marketing? What is stopping them?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- maneesh 9y ago
  I used to have a similar scarcity mentality --- thinking that because other people were successful, it was like the lottery -- based purely on chance. But I learned over time to develop a abundance mentality -- rather than say 'it can't be done' -- to change my mode of thinking to say 'how did they do it, and is there anything for me to learn.' A consultant making 5 figures a week is not a unicorn, it's not even that uncommon. But it's not just coding -- there's other steps that are also necessary but not sufficient. Building a reputation, building a following (a blog or email newsletter is a good way to get started), meeting people who open doors, etc.
ineedasername 9y ago
Not everyone can be in the top 1% of paid professionals in their field. That extends to acting or consulting. And there simply aren't enough clients that can pay that much to support a significant increase in the # of folks pulling down those fees, regardless of the quality of the service offered. If 100 Michael Jordans showed up tomorrow, that would just increase competition for the same scarce resource of NBA player slots, not the number of slots. Professional sports or acting make these dynamics more transparant, but they're at play in all professions.
- Retric 9y ago
  I would argue that increasing the number and quality of great actors increases the profitably of movie studios, and thus the number of movies made. Similarly with sports, there is a huge range of player incomes and assuming the sport becomes more interesting to watch and thus profitable their would be room for more highly compensated players.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    For that to happen, they would have to increase the number of teams. This requires new stadiums/arenas to be built, and expansion teams to be created. This requires rebalancing of conferences and divisions within the league.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      It also requires a fanbase.
    - kemitche 9y ago
      And, over several decades of the NFL, all of that has happened several times.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      Your assuming that every where else follows the socialist model that American sports do i.e. a pre entry closed shop for franchises with no consequences for failure - a premier league footballer has far more incentive to play well to stop his team getting demoted and facing a massive drop in his salary.

You think being a consultant is as rare as becoming an actor?

by putnam 9y ago

You think being a consultant is as rare as becoming an actor?

He used an exaggerated metaphor to illustrate that pragmatically, not everyone can market themselves to become well known, no matter how good they are at writing software. You then turned that into an irrelevant comparison of the difficulty of becoming an actor vs a consultant.

putnam 9y ago
Thank you. Do you think that someone who is good at writing software can not learn to market themselves to become well known?
- mgkimsal 9y ago
  Not the OP, but my own experience is that it's a more uncommon skill than I first thought. I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. I'm not at all saying all 'consultants' are great at this either - 'consultants' work for 'big 5' firms and are just sent out on engagements, which isn't quite the 'consultant' we're talking about here (the word means many things). I've worked with people on projects who couldn't sense when the other people in the room were veering off topic and not understanding a response. Also worked with people who could not ever understand they themselves were going offtopic and/or not understanding what the clients were saying. Talking to hear yourself talk is a big one. Not being able to adjust yourself to the project is a project (if you're working with a small $2m company of 10 people, repeating anecdotes from your $100m engagements isn't impressive, it's ... annoying and/or off-topic). Not delivering when you say you will. Not calling people back when you say you will. Blaming everyone else but yourself - these are all problems I've seen (and experienced) myself as an independent consultant. Easier to mask/hide when you're "just" doing development as an internal employee someplace. Also... you posted this and have asked a lot of questions. If you want to talk more offline, email me.
  - BeetleB 9y ago
    >I know plenty of skilled developers, but only a handful have a combination of business savvy and enough social skills and graces to be able to talk to a variety of people in business settings without ... hosing it up somehow. Of course most are like that: How much effort did they put in to become skilled developers, and how much on the business savvy? I'm guessing years on the former, and perhaps hours on the latter? It's not that people can't develop those skills. It's that few want to, or realize that they have to.
    - mcguire 9y ago
      Then there's that old joke about getting a girlfriend and having your .emacs go to shit.
    - mgkimsal 9y ago
      > It's not that people can't develop those skills. It's that few want to, or realize that they have to I sort of agree, but ... we all know the people who try to get in to programming/development, but just never get it. They can try, and maybe even land a jr role some place, but it never really clicks, regardless of how long they work at it. I think the non-tech skills are like that in some measure as well. Also, while I'm probably switching examples a bit, I'm not sure how much experience you need practicing skills like showing up on time, or answering emails (and without being rude or condescending). There may be people who need to "practice" not insulting clients' employees in emails to the same client, but I'm not sure how much practice one should need to have basic empathic ability. If you don't have some of that, how many years do you need "practicing" those skills?
      - BeetleB 9y ago
        >I think the non-tech skills are like that in some measure as well. The difference is that to do very well in tech/programming, you have to be well above the average. For a lot of non-tech skills, merely being a bit above the average will get you far. In the context of this discussion, the primary skill the consultant has is still his technical skills. He merely upped his non-tech skills enough to prevent it from being a barrier.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Some can, some can't, but realistically, even if everyone were turning out articles as good as Steve Yegge's they couldn't all achieve the same name recognition. If you want another example look at mobile app stores. Surely there were thousands of games just as good as Flappy Bird that you've never heard of.
  - putnam 9y ago
    Who is Steve Yegge?
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Formerly one of the most prominent programming bloggers but he has been inactive for a while.
- mcguire 9y ago
  "Can not learn?" No. Not interested in / willing to spend the time to do it? Marketing yourself is a full time job.

AFNobody 9y ago

A consultant making 5 figures a week, in practical terms, is a unicorn that is not reliably repeatable. Most people cannot maintain that level of marketing while maintaining an income (as a consultant) effectively. If they could, every programmer would try to transition into making 5 figures a week as a consultant instead of making $100-200k with a stable job. The $4k/week thing isn't since pretty much any decent consultant can command $100/hr which is what that weekly billing works out to.

mgkimsal 9y ago
That person making 5 figures per week often doesn't need or want to be working 'repeatably' or have a full schedule. A couple folks I know charge $15k-$20k/week, but they only care to take on a few of those per year, while pursuing other interests (other business ideas, etc). Even $30k/week is still selling time for money, and "isn't scalable" - maxing out at $1.5m/year even fully booked, which few are.
- putnam 9y ago
  Are they in-person jobs?
- AFNobody 9y ago
  I'm talking about number of people able to do it rather than the specific individuals who have gotten into that position.
putnam 9y ago
Why can they not maintain that level of marketing? What is stopping them?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
maneesh 9y ago
I used to have a similar scarcity mentality --- thinking that because other people were successful, it was like the lottery -- based purely on chance. But I learned over time to develop a abundance mentality -- rather than say 'it can't be done' -- to change my mode of thinking to say 'how did they do it, and is there anything for me to learn.' A consultant making 5 figures a week is not a unicorn, it's not even that uncommon. But it's not just coding -- there's other steps that are also necessary but not sufficient. Building a reputation, building a following (a blog or email newsletter is a good way to get started), meeting people who open doors, etc.

ineedasername 9y ago

Not everyone can be in the top 1% of paid professionals in their field. That extends to acting or consulting. And there simply aren't enough clients that can pay that much to support a significant increase in the # of folks pulling down those fees, regardless of the quality of the service offered. If 100 Michael Jordans showed up tomorrow, that would just increase competition for the same scarce resource of NBA player slots, not the number of slots. Professional sports or acting make these dynamics more transparant, but they're at play in all professions.

Retric 9y ago
I would argue that increasing the number and quality of great actors increases the profitably of movie studios, and thus the number of movies made. Similarly with sports, there is a huge range of player incomes and assuming the sport becomes more interesting to watch and thus profitable their would be room for more highly compensated players.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  For that to happen, they would have to increase the number of teams. This requires new stadiums/arenas to be built, and expansion teams to be created. This requires rebalancing of conferences and divisions within the league.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    It also requires a fanbase.
  - kemitche 9y ago
    And, over several decades of the NFL, all of that has happened several times.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Your assuming that every where else follows the socialist model that American sports do i.e. a pre entry closed shop for franchises with no consequences for failure - a premier league footballer has far more incentive to play well to stop his team getting demoted and facing a massive drop in his salary.