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It's all based on your level of verification with the exchange. At the maximum (level 4) verification on Kraken you are limited to $100,000 withdrawal per day o

It's all based on your level of verification with the exchange. At the maximum (level 4) verification on Kraken you are limited to $100,000 withdrawal per day or $500,000 per month. So while he still wouldn't be able to withdraw the full amount at once, it is not nearly as bad as the author makes it sound.

davidgerard 9y ago
Lots of people can cash out, but really, lots of people can't. Money suspended in mid-air from Coinbase for an indefinite length of time is becoming a standard consumer experience. Perhaps retail investors shouldn't go near bitcoin, in which case I completely agree. I'd love to know what proportion of transfers from Coinbase end up stuck in mid-air; I did ask them, but of course they haven't time to answer email from some blogger.
- g09980 9y ago
  FWIW, many of my friends cash out from Coinbase and GDAX regularly. I have heard of occassional delays but nothing like "you can't cash out." (Looks like about 3 days processing time from usual 1 day now for wires due to sudden spike of users: https://status.coinbase.com/ https://status.coinbase.com/)
  - Jommi 9y ago
    We're not talking about "cash out" as in few thousands of dollars. we're talking about the hundreds of thousands or millions that some "Investors" are sitting on.
    - sowbug 9y ago
      What do you think would motivate them to tell you about their successes and paint a giant hacker target on their backs?
    - otheotheothe 9y ago
      Thats nonsense, absolutely. They use an OTC broker like genesis or cumberland (DWR). Can easily sell up to 100 mio and receive it in cash the next day.
- nonbel 9y ago
  Assuming you are the author, how is it that your title is "Why you can't cash out", yet you write "Lots of people can cash out"? Can you clarify who is being referred to by "you"? At first it would seem to be "everyone", but that is clearly not what you mean.
  - davidgerard 9y ago
    "you" is the "you" in particular who is having problems. I've found this has been pretty clear for pretty much everyone who isn't a cryptocurrency advocate, fwiw. I note at the end: "It’s nice if you had no trouble yourself, but 'I’m all right Jack' is not the attitude for this series of posts." I'm finding more and more reports just from normal people who foolishly tried cryptos to see how this all works. Latest is Rory Cellan-Jones, who happens to be writing it up in his capacity as a BBC journalist: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42454876 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42454876 - I'm sure he'll be documenting the "transaction suspended in mid-air" experience in detail, to Coinbase's delight.
    - nonbel 9y ago
      > '"you" is the "you" in particular who is having problems.' Thanks, do you have any insight into what characteristics the people who are having problems may share?
    - nonbel 9y ago
      From your link: >"In theory that is simple enough and indeed I have sold £500 worth for a small fee. But actually getting that cash into my sterling bank account is far from seamless - so far I am a week in to what promises to be a two-week process." It sounds like 1-2 weeks is what you should expect from coinbase: >"When you place a sell order or withdraw USD to a US bank account, the money usually arrives within 4-6 business days." https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1392026-how-long-does-a-sell-or-withdrawal-take-to-complete- https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/139...
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  This is ridiculous. I’ve read hundreds of stories about people who have had issues with Coinbase. I’m sure they’re the tip of the iceberg and there are actually thousands or even hundreds of thousands having issues. But Coinbase has many tens of millions of users, so it’s still probably a small fraction. And by your own admission, you have no idea, so stating that it’s “the standard experience” is just more anti-cryptocurrency FUD like your article series. EDIT: it’s actually 13 million as of Dec 1. The point stands: 100,000 users having issues is still less than 1%.
  - sowbug 9y ago
    Forums are always full of people who complain. These days, the rare person who bothers to say their experience was fine is immediately branded an astroturfer or shill. I hate those kinds of people. Obviously they're funded by the Koch brothers. Anyone who disagrees with me is a neonazi. Also this is all a Ponzi scheme.
  - davidgerard 9y ago
    Literally any bank having 100,000 fucked-over customers would consider it - or be made to consider it - an issue, and any reasonable person would consider it a matter of tremendous concern. Would you consider it a matter of no concern if it was your bank, rather than something bitcoin-related?
phil21 9y ago
Unfortunately I thought the same thing, and paid for giving out your exact advice. Kraken has a hidden $50k/100k/yr limit even if you are verified at level 4. Be exceedingly careful not to rely on an exchange's publicly published limits because they are universally incorrect for US customers. "Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We realize that your transaction couldn't be processed by our wire processor since you had exceeded your current annual USD transfer limit of $50,000. Since you seem to be interested in withdrawing or depositing large amounts of USD, we would like to see if we can do anything to help make your Kraken experience any better. You may provide us proof of source of funds document(PoSoF) to have these limits to $100,000 on a daily/monthly/annual basis." (sorry, HN's quoting is horrible) Basically the tldr is if you are a US customer there is a $100k annual US wire withdrawal limit, but no annual deposit limit. The above was sent to a L4 verified customer. You will find many other exchanges have other "hidden" limits you will trigger as you attempt to bring money into the US. This includes coinbase/GDAX, and is seemingly almost random. Even Bitstamp will stop sending you wires after a certain amount of time and require an invasive level of documentation such as tax returns. The good news is for people liquidating large amounts of Bitcoin you can get approved on an OTC desk like Cumberland or Gemini which have zero problems doing 10x the amount in single transactions. This does require a bit more human vetting of you though, and you better have zero reputational concerns on google/etc. Edit: I don't entirely blame them - if they could, they wouldn't care in the least about KYC/AML laws. They are simply attempting to keep their businesses from being locked out of the US financial system. Ironically this exact kind of "your money isn't really your money unless we tell you it is" stuff is the reason I first got into Bitcoin. I've seen more money outright stolen by banks than I have criminals.

davidgerard 9y ago

Lots of people can cash out, but really, lots of people can't. Money suspended in mid-air from Coinbase for an indefinite length of time is becoming a standard consumer experience. Perhaps retail investors shouldn't go near bitcoin, in which case I completely agree. I'd love to know what proportion of transfers from Coinbase end up stuck in mid-air; I did ask them, but of course they haven't time to answer email from some blogger.

g09980 9y ago
FWIW, many of my friends cash out from Coinbase and GDAX regularly. I have heard of occassional delays but nothing like "you can't cash out." (Looks like about 3 days processing time from usual 1 day now for wires due to sudden spike of users: https://status.coinbase.com/ https://status.coinbase.com/)
- Jommi 9y ago
  We're not talking about "cash out" as in few thousands of dollars. we're talking about the hundreds of thousands or millions that some "Investors" are sitting on.
  - sowbug 9y ago
    What do you think would motivate them to tell you about their successes and paint a giant hacker target on their backs?
  - otheotheothe 9y ago
    Thats nonsense, absolutely. They use an OTC broker like genesis or cumberland (DWR). Can easily sell up to 100 mio and receive it in cash the next day.
nonbel 9y ago
Assuming you are the author, how is it that your title is "Why you can't cash out", yet you write "Lots of people can cash out"? Can you clarify who is being referred to by "you"? At first it would seem to be "everyone", but that is clearly not what you mean.
- davidgerard 9y ago
  "you" is the "you" in particular who is having problems. I've found this has been pretty clear for pretty much everyone who isn't a cryptocurrency advocate, fwiw. I note at the end: "It’s nice if you had no trouble yourself, but 'I’m all right Jack' is not the attitude for this series of posts." I'm finding more and more reports just from normal people who foolishly tried cryptos to see how this all works. Latest is Rory Cellan-Jones, who happens to be writing it up in his capacity as a BBC journalist: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42454876 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42454876 - I'm sure he'll be documenting the "transaction suspended in mid-air" experience in detail, to Coinbase's delight.
  - nonbel 9y ago
    > '"you" is the "you" in particular who is having problems.' Thanks, do you have any insight into what characteristics the people who are having problems may share?
  - nonbel 9y ago
    From your link: >"In theory that is simple enough and indeed I have sold £500 worth for a small fee. But actually getting that cash into my sterling bank account is far from seamless - so far I am a week in to what promises to be a two-week process." It sounds like 1-2 weeks is what you should expect from coinbase: >"When you place a sell order or withdraw USD to a US bank account, the money usually arrives within 4-6 business days." https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1392026-how-long-does-a-sell-or-withdrawal-take-to-complete- https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/139...
ryanwaggoner 9y ago
This is ridiculous. I’ve read hundreds of stories about people who have had issues with Coinbase. I’m sure they’re the tip of the iceberg and there are actually thousands or even hundreds of thousands having issues. But Coinbase has many tens of millions of users, so it’s still probably a small fraction. And by your own admission, you have no idea, so stating that it’s “the standard experience” is just more anti-cryptocurrency FUD like your article series. EDIT: it’s actually 13 million as of Dec 1. The point stands: 100,000 users having issues is still less than 1%.
- sowbug 9y ago
  Forums are always full of people who complain. These days, the rare person who bothers to say their experience was fine is immediately branded an astroturfer or shill. I hate those kinds of people. Obviously they're funded by the Koch brothers. Anyone who disagrees with me is a neonazi. Also this is all a Ponzi scheme.
- davidgerard 9y ago
  Literally any bank having 100,000 fucked-over customers would consider it - or be made to consider it - an issue, and any reasonable person would consider it a matter of tremendous concern. Would you consider it a matter of no concern if it was your bank, rather than something bitcoin-related?

phil21 9y ago

Unfortunately I thought the same thing, and paid for giving out your exact advice. Kraken has a hidden $50k/100k/yr limit even if you are verified at level 4. Be exceedingly careful not to rely on an exchange's publicly published limits because they are universally incorrect for US customers. "Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We realize that your transaction couldn't be processed by our wire processor since you had exceeded your current annual USD transfer limit of $50,000. Since you seem to be interested in withdrawing or depositing large amounts of USD, we would like to see if we can do anything to help make your Kraken experience any better. You may provide us proof of source of funds document(PoSoF) to have these limits to $100,000 on a daily/monthly/annual basis." (sorry, HN's quoting is horrible) Basically the tldr is if you are a US customer there is a $100k annual US wire withdrawal limit, but no annual deposit limit. The above was sent to a L4 verified customer. You will find many other exchanges have other "hidden" limits you will trigger as you attempt to bring money into the US. This includes coinbase/GDAX, and is seemingly almost random. Even Bitstamp will stop sending you wires after a certain amount of time and require an invasive level of documentation such as tax returns. The good news is for people liquidating large amounts of Bitcoin you can get approved on an OTC desk like Cumberland or Gemini which have zero problems doing 10x the amount in single transactions. This does require a bit more human vetting of you though, and you better have zero reputational concerns on google/etc. Edit: I don't entirely blame them - if they could, they wouldn't care in the least about KYC/AML laws. They are simply attempting to keep their businesses from being locked out of the US financial system. Ironically this exact kind of "your money isn't really your money unless we tell you it is" stuff is the reason I first got into Bitcoin. I've seen more money outright stolen by banks than I have criminals.