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Well if you want to nitpick, isn't what you describe communism instead?

by zdkl 9y ago

danharaj 9y ago
Some people use socialism interchangeably with communism, e.g. libertarian socialists are the same as anarchist communists. Others, like Marx use socialism to mean a society where both capitalist and communist modes of production coexist in a transitory condition. In any case, the element I described is necessary for it to be called socialism, and it doesn't exist in Japan at any significant scale. The welfare state is not socialism and this is not a nitpick.
- zdkl 9y ago
  > The welfare state is not socialism You keep using that word, yet I do not think it means what you think it means. > Some people use socialism interchangeably with communism Well some people also believe credit and debit cards have no fundamental difference. That they believe it doesn't make it true. You said yourself something about "the direct control of industry by the worker". That is unequivocally a communist concept. Reforming a capitalist society to those ideals through democratic process is socialism, but the end goal is a communist equilibrium. Post transition "socialism" has no meaning and no identifying properties: it is a transformative process by opposition to "true believer" anarchist/communist's grand revolution schemes. So tell me again how Japan is reforming itself into communism?
  - danharaj 9y ago
    > So tell me again how Japan is reforming itself into communism? You know for someone acting so smug and combative you've completely missed the point of my remarks. It wasn't me who was claiming that Japan is socialist in any way. Whatever floats your boat tho.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      I must confess I realised that a couple hours after writing it. I apologise for coming across as smug and missing the point entirely. This whole "socialism==communism" thing upsets me.
      - danharaj 9y ago
        It's cool. To be quite honest all of these words are so charged and poisoned that it's hard to use them and successfully communicate with someone whomst doesn't share the same frame of reference.

Well if you want to nitpick, isn't what you describe communism instead?

by zdkl 9y ago

Well if you want to nitpick, isn't what you describe communism instead?

Some people use socialism interchangeably with communism, e.g. libertarian socialists are the same as anarchist communists. Others, like Marx use socialism to mean a society where both capitalist and communist modes of production coexist in a transitory condition. In any case, the element I described is necessary for it to be called socialism, and it doesn't exist in Japan at any significant scale. The welfare state is not socialism and this is not a nitpick.

zdkl 9y ago
> The welfare state is not socialism You keep using that word, yet I do not think it means what you think it means. > Some people use socialism interchangeably with communism Well some people also believe credit and debit cards have no fundamental difference. That they believe it doesn't make it true. You said yourself something about "the direct control of industry by the worker". That is unequivocally a communist concept. Reforming a capitalist society to those ideals through democratic process is socialism, but the end goal is a communist equilibrium. Post transition "socialism" has no meaning and no identifying properties: it is a transformative process by opposition to "true believer" anarchist/communist's grand revolution schemes. So tell me again how Japan is reforming itself into communism?
- danharaj 9y ago
  > So tell me again how Japan is reforming itself into communism? You know for someone acting so smug and combative you've completely missed the point of my remarks. It wasn't me who was claiming that Japan is socialist in any way. Whatever floats your boat tho.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    I must confess I realised that a couple hours after writing it. I apologise for coming across as smug and missing the point entirely. This whole "socialism==communism" thing upsets me.
    - danharaj 9y ago
      It's cool. To be quite honest all of these words are so charged and poisoned that it's hard to use them and successfully communicate with someone whomst doesn't share the same frame of reference.