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If you externalize the costs of verifying that to third parties, you lose properties that make Bitcoin Isn't that what "off-chain transactions" and the "Lightn

If you externalize the costs of verifying that to third parties, you lose properties that make Bitcoin Isn't that what "off-chain transactions" and the "Lightning Network" are?

VMG 9y ago
Lighting Network is a trustless protocol
- xocyabencl 9y ago
  If lightning network includes tech that can support billions of transactions, can it be used without bitcoin? Why not use lighting with an uncongested coin?
  - ozmbie 9y ago
    Bitcoin is the most popular with the most resources behind it, so it makes sense to leverage off it. There's nothing stopping similar networks occurring on other coins.
  - VMG 9y ago
    Yes, any coin that has segwit or a comparable fix for malleability can use lightning. Litecoin is already supported. You can even have atomic swaps between both over lightning channels.
- canoebuilder 9y ago
  Are there any real world implementations of LN? Can it operate on it's own, or does it need to be a layer on top of a cryptocoin network? What incentive do LN node operators have to operate?
  - VMG 9y ago
    Yes, there are three interoperable implementations https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/ https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/ It runs on top of Bitcoin-like Blockchains that have segwit or something comparable. If you run a LN node you can charge fees for routing payments.
    - canoebuilder 9y ago
      If I pay for something using LN am I going to find it a superior experience to paying with cash or card, or am I going to find it a cumbersome experience for which I am charged an exorbitant fee?
      - VMG 9y ago
        The goal is to make it simple and inexpensive. Since it supports microtransactions in the sub-cent range and is irreversible, it would beat credit cards in those regards. The most expensive step would be opening a channel, but there is work on reducing that cost.
      - ozmbie 9y ago
        There is upfront work (first you need some bitcoin, then you need to make an on-chain transaction to open a payment channel) but after that, lightning payments are trustless, instant, and with small fees (it's designed to support micro-payments). But right now this is still VERY early in development.

If you externalize the costs of verifying that to third parties, you lose properties that make Bitcoin Isn't that what "off-chain transactions" and the "Lightning Network" are?

VMG 9y ago

Lighting Network is a trustless protocol

xocyabencl 9y ago
If lightning network includes tech that can support billions of transactions, can it be used without bitcoin? Why not use lighting with an uncongested coin?
- ozmbie 9y ago
  Bitcoin is the most popular with the most resources behind it, so it makes sense to leverage off it. There's nothing stopping similar networks occurring on other coins.
- VMG 9y ago
  Yes, any coin that has segwit or a comparable fix for malleability can use lightning. Litecoin is already supported. You can even have atomic swaps between both over lightning channels.
canoebuilder 9y ago
Are there any real world implementations of LN? Can it operate on it's own, or does it need to be a layer on top of a cryptocoin network? What incentive do LN node operators have to operate?
- VMG 9y ago
  Yes, there are three interoperable implementations https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/ https://cdecker.github.io/lightning-integration/ It runs on top of Bitcoin-like Blockchains that have segwit or something comparable. If you run a LN node you can charge fees for routing payments.
  - canoebuilder 9y ago
    If I pay for something using LN am I going to find it a superior experience to paying with cash or card, or am I going to find it a cumbersome experience for which I am charged an exorbitant fee?
    - VMG 9y ago
      The goal is to make it simple and inexpensive. Since it supports microtransactions in the sub-cent range and is irreversible, it would beat credit cards in those regards. The most expensive step would be opening a channel, but there is work on reducing that cost.
    - ozmbie 9y ago
      There is upfront work (first you need some bitcoin, then you need to make an on-chain transaction to open a payment channel) but after that, lightning payments are trustless, instant, and with small fees (it's designed to support micro-payments). But right now this is still VERY early in development.