4 ms·

I live in NJ, another state where the $200k-$400k will be hurt. Believe me, that is solidly middle class, even when a 1BR rents for $3k/month. The real proble

I live in NJ, another state where the $200k-$400k will be hurt. Believe me, that is solidly middle class, even when a 1BR rents for $3k/month. The real problem with these "tax breaks" is that the most significant breaks are highly specific and selective. This tax bill basically picks winners and losers. Worse still, the winners tend to be people with the kind of investments and lifestyle that Republican lawmakers have (e.g. the Corker kickback), and the losers tend to be professionals living in Democrat-leaning states (e.g. tech workers). The relatively small breaks that the majority will receive are temporary, and represent a minefield of exceptions that can leave people with no break at all (e.g. the loss of exemptions). There is a reason Republicans are picking oddly specific examples of people the bill will benefit -- most people will not see much, which is not a very compelling story.

smacktoward 9y ago
> I live in NJ, another state where the $200k-$400k will be hurt. Believe me, that is solidly middle class The median household in New Jersey in 2016 had an income of $76,212. (Source: https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/saipe/saipe.html?s_appName=saipe&map_yearSelector=2016&map_geoSelector=mhi_c&s_state=34&s_measures=mhi_snc&menu=grid_proxy https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/saipe/saipe.html?s_ap...) In the highest-income county in New Jersey, Hunterdon County, the median household in 2016 had an income of $113,336. You may wish to adjust your definition of “solidly middle class” a bit.
- betterunix2 9y ago
  I was going by what sort of lifestyle you can live with that income range. You can rent a nice apartment in a nice part of town and support a family on your salary. You could also go out to the suburbs and live in a largish house. You get one or two trips abroad with your kids each year. We are not talking about country clubs, yachts, or first class airfare here. It is not the 1%. It is between working class and upper class. What else would you call it?
  - llamataboot 9y ago
    Statistically, quite rich.
    - betterunix2 9y ago
      I disagree. The 1% is "quite rich." The 200k-400k income band is not the 1%. Like I said, the things wealthy people can afford are still out of reach. There is a group of people who are not living paycheck to paycheck but who still need to work full time. That group is called the middle class.
      - americanjetset 9y ago
        >So your definition of "solidly upper class" is the top 10% of earners? That's a pretty loose definition IMO. You stated that above. I'd say your definition here is quite a bit more "loose."
eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
200k-400k is in no way "solidly middle class," nor is that true in any area in all of The United States. That income is very much upper class and puts you in the top 5% of earners in NJ, so it is in no way "middle" anything. https://statisticalatlas.com/state/New-Jersey/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/state/New-Jersey/Household-Inco...
- betterunix2 9y ago
  Upper class is a stretch. $200k is enough to live in a nice apartment and travel once or twice per year. It is not enough to pair a yacht with your condo (it is not even enough to afford most of the >1BR condos in Jersey City). Maybe "upper middle class" but I don't see how anyone outside of the 1% can reasonably be called "very much upper class."
ghettoimp 9y ago
"Believe me, that is solidly middle class..." I don't live there, but even $200k seems solidly upper class. "In 2012, 9.1% of New Jersey households have annual incomes of or over $200,000, and 17.5% have incomes of $100,000 or more." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_locations_by_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_locations_b...
- betterunix2 9y ago
  So your definition of "solidly upper class" is the top 10% of earners? That's a pretty loose definition IMO.
  - ghettoimp 9y ago
    Sure. I’m pretty comfortable taking the position that the top 10% are in the upper class.
wdn 9y ago
Beside if you live close to NYC, there is no 1 bedroom cost 3k a month. Stop acting paying 3k is the norm.

smacktoward 9y ago

> I live in NJ, another state where the $200k-$400k will be hurt. Believe me, that is solidly middle class The median household in New Jersey in 2016 had an income of $76,212. (Source: https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/saipe/saipe.html?s_appName=saipe&map_yearSelector=2016&map_geoSelector=mhi_c&s_state=34&s_measures=mhi_snc&menu=grid_proxy https://www.census.gov/data-tools/demo/saipe/saipe.html?s_ap...) In the highest-income county in New Jersey, Hunterdon County, the median household in 2016 had an income of $113,336. You may wish to adjust your definition of “solidly middle class” a bit.

betterunix2 9y ago
I was going by what sort of lifestyle you can live with that income range. You can rent a nice apartment in a nice part of town and support a family on your salary. You could also go out to the suburbs and live in a largish house. You get one or two trips abroad with your kids each year. We are not talking about country clubs, yachts, or first class airfare here. It is not the 1%. It is between working class and upper class. What else would you call it?
- llamataboot 9y ago
  Statistically, quite rich.
  - betterunix2 9y ago
    I disagree. The 1% is "quite rich." The 200k-400k income band is not the 1%. Like I said, the things wealthy people can afford are still out of reach. There is a group of people who are not living paycheck to paycheck but who still need to work full time. That group is called the middle class.
    - americanjetset 9y ago
      >So your definition of "solidly upper class" is the top 10% of earners? That's a pretty loose definition IMO. You stated that above. I'd say your definition here is quite a bit more "loose."

eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago

200k-400k is in no way "solidly middle class," nor is that true in any area in all of The United States. That income is very much upper class and puts you in the top 5% of earners in NJ, so it is in no way "middle" anything. https://statisticalatlas.com/state/New-Jersey/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/state/New-Jersey/Household-Inco...

betterunix2 9y ago
Upper class is a stretch. $200k is enough to live in a nice apartment and travel once or twice per year. It is not enough to pair a yacht with your condo (it is not even enough to afford most of the >1BR condos in Jersey City). Maybe "upper middle class" but I don't see how anyone outside of the 1% can reasonably be called "very much upper class."

ghettoimp 9y ago

"Believe me, that is solidly middle class..." I don't live there, but even $200k seems solidly upper class. "In 2012, 9.1% of New Jersey households have annual incomes of or over $200,000, and 17.5% have incomes of $100,000 or more." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_locations_by_per_capita_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Jersey_locations_b...

betterunix2 9y ago
So your definition of "solidly upper class" is the top 10% of earners? That's a pretty loose definition IMO.
- ghettoimp 9y ago
  Sure. I’m pretty comfortable taking the position that the top 10% are in the upper class.

wdn 9y ago

Beside if you live close to NYC, there is no 1 bedroom cost 3k a month. Stop acting paying 3k is the norm.