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Tech people in SV and the Bay live in a world where they experience consensus as a series of badly broken systems. The deep, durable pockets of poverty and mise

by Kalium 9y ago

Tech people in SV and the Bay live in a world where they experience consensus as a series of badly broken systems. The deep, durable pockets of poverty and misery? Built and maintained by democratic consensus. The needs-much-improvement public schools of SF and Oakland? Built and maintained by consensus. The state of BART? Built and maintained by consensus. People on average don't like poverty, misery, gentrification, unreliable public transit, and spiking rents. But on average, people around here do seem to like all the things that contribute to those. Prop 13, "neighborhood character" concerns halting housing construction, and bus stops every block are all popular. I can't claim to speak for everyone here. But personally? I see a lot of broken systems that I cannot fix. Where my attempts to help fix things for everyone are not only ineffectual, but actively unwelcome. In light of that, I do what I can. I make myself comfortable. If I cannot address the suffering of others, I can at least limit my own suffering. No lives are improved if I join in the suffering of others to indulge some bizarre impulse to self-flagellate. My own suffering is not a moral imperative.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
conanbatt 9y ago
Well said. Rent control, prop 13, NIMBY all things that deepen the terrible consequences that are seen everyday. And its crazy to me to visit Seattle right now and also find my way walking next to so many mentally ill homeless people. I'm not big on most socialized solutions, but taking care of mentally ill people roaming the streets is one of those that are very easy to agree to. Yet the topic everyday is Trump this or that,while you had to walk past 10-20 people to get to the office. There is some massive cognitive dissonance going on, that I think I can easily think and talk about because im a foreigner.
- Kalium 9y ago
  It's hard to take care of the mentally ill who live on the streets, especially in California. They cannot be legally confined for treatment until they are deemed a threat to themselves or others, and that's a pretty high bar. Until then, it's up to them to seek treatment. Many don't want it or can't handle the organization / discipline to stay treated. As a result, it's not nearly as tractable a problem as it seems.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    Yet cities like buenos aires with rampant poverty don't have this issue and it doesn't nearly as much to solve that particular problem. It is a problem of policy and one that affects both the homeless and the non homeless people tremendously. I guess if the couple that had kept the presidio street and were to put up the homeless tents there , the problem would find a solution much faster. As many others, its a problem of political will. What is unique, is that people everyday have to deal with homeless people in SF and yet its not a top agenda. Smoking pot is tho.
threatofrain 9y ago
I didn't mean to place moral judgment on you; but I did mean to question why there is special moral onus being placed on the tech community. Of course as an individual, one is naturally free to assist in the suffering that is proximal to them, given ability and desire. But there's also a place for policy, which means organizing and coalition-building, as SF surely has no shortage of churches and non-profit organizations for social justice. I also think that people aren't necessarily so "bearish" with regard to their attitude about democratic power. Surely President Trump is an example.

by Kalium 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

conanbatt 9y ago

Well said. Rent control, prop 13, NIMBY all things that deepen the terrible consequences that are seen everyday. And its crazy to me to visit Seattle right now and also find my way walking next to so many mentally ill homeless people. I'm not big on most socialized solutions, but taking care of mentally ill people roaming the streets is one of those that are very easy to agree to. Yet the topic everyday is Trump this or that,while you had to walk past 10-20 people to get to the office. There is some massive cognitive dissonance going on, that I think I can easily think and talk about because im a foreigner.

Kalium 9y ago
It's hard to take care of the mentally ill who live on the streets, especially in California. They cannot be legally confined for treatment until they are deemed a threat to themselves or others, and that's a pretty high bar. Until then, it's up to them to seek treatment. Many don't want it or can't handle the organization / discipline to stay treated. As a result, it's not nearly as tractable a problem as it seems.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  Yet cities like buenos aires with rampant poverty don't have this issue and it doesn't nearly as much to solve that particular problem. It is a problem of policy and one that affects both the homeless and the non homeless people tremendously. I guess if the couple that had kept the presidio street and were to put up the homeless tents there , the problem would find a solution much faster. As many others, its a problem of political will. What is unique, is that people everyday have to deal with homeless people in SF and yet its not a top agenda. Smoking pot is tho.

threatofrain 9y ago

I didn't mean to place moral judgment on you; but I did mean to question why there is special moral onus being placed on the tech community. Of course as an individual, one is naturally free to assist in the suffering that is proximal to them, given ability and desire. But there's also a place for policy, which means organizing and coalition-building, as SF surely has no shortage of churches and non-profit organizations for social justice. I also think that people aren't necessarily so "bearish" with regard to their attitude about democratic power. Surely President Trump is an example.