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I'll buy a $3000 MacBook Pro if you bring back USB ports, an SD slot, an HDMI port, a user replaceable battery. And the escape key. But no, why don't you just

I'll buy a $3000 MacBook Pro if you bring back USB ports, an SD slot, an HDMI port, a user replaceable battery. And the escape key. But no, why don't you just leave this money on the table instead and I'll make do with the 2013 model. You go on ahead, Apple, wondering how to ignite more revenue growth.

adjkant 9y ago
You don't have to get the touch bar, FYI. Most CS people I know opt to go without it and miss pretty much nothing. I agree with the pain of USB-C, but one hub for home and one mobile adapter can solve all that. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
- ashark 9y ago
  The non-touchbar model has (IIRC) a weaker processor, and removes two of the USB-C ports for no reason aside from Apple's strong desire that you not buy it (instead paying way more for a Touch Bar you don't want, to get those two ports and higher speed back) Plus it's still a little more expensive than the previous base model at launch, I think, despite being worse in quite a few ways.
  - adjkant 9y ago
    True, but that worse processor and -2 USB-C ports that I would never use thanks to having to have a hub anyways saves $500. Enough to upgrade the processor to an i7. > Plus it's still a little more expensive than the previous base model at launch, I think, despite being worse in quite a few ways. Besides USB-C, what else is worse compared to the previous model? I had the model before, so not too familiar.
    - ashark 9y ago
      Mostly the lack of ports. We had to buy a ton of new monitors at work because most of our existing ones wouldn't work or didn't work well, even with adapters. If you travel with them you have to carry adapters, because there's only about a 1% chance any given monitor you need to plug into on the road is USB-C. Ditto anything else you might need to plug in. Including your friggin' iPhone. Chance of my doing that with my personal equipment, dropping hundreds on top of the (now higher) price of a new MacBook? Precisely zero. My 2015 will have to serve me until they get their shit together, most of my stuff is upgraded to USB-C anyway (guarantee that's more than 5 years off), or I give up and switch to Arch or something. Some people love the keyboard, some people hate it, so call that a wash. I recently had to use a two-generations-ago MacBook keyboard (last model with an optical drive, I think) after getting very used to 2014+ and the current ultra-thin one, and... I actually liked that one better than both the newer ones, and I don't hate the newest one, it's just less nice to use than the one two generations ago. Also gets crippled by specs of dust, seemingly, which is annoying.
      - adjkant 9y ago
        Yeah, all of that's fair. I would do the same as you, but my old one was on its last legs. In the end, I spent $150 on adapters and have been good to go on my personal setup since, traveling and at home. I'm sure this is a lot bigger nightmare at work. To me in daily life, everything seems fine sans USB-C and touch bar. It's a one-time price hassle that sucks but in the end doesn't end the world. I travel with one adapter that has USB's, HDMI, and a USB-C on it and have yet to run into any issues with it. I wish Apple actually made decent hubs that didn't cost a small fortune, and I do hope they get their shit together next model as well. I just think that the sky isn't falling. You said it was worse in quite a few ways, but I think it's really just 1-2 big ones that can be fixed. > We had to buy a ton of new monitors at work because most of our existing ones wouldn't work or didn't work well, even with adapters. The biggest issue is the adapter market is absolute shit. I got lucky with two good ones.
        ashark 9y ago
        > I just think that the sky isn't falling. You said it was worse in quite a few ways, but I think it's really just 1-2 big ones that can be fixed. Well, it was several ports they replaced :-) But yeah, it's not that I think the new ones are junk or anything. I have one for work. It's fine if you have USB-C stuff with it and if making sure you have that crap is someone else's problem, and expense. There's just no way I'm paying more for one of them than the previous model, for my personal laptop, because I use every port on there all the time—except the Apple ones (lightning/displayport? I can never keep the names straight) and don't have a single USB-C device in my house. If the new model came with a really great multiport hub/dock thingy to get us through this (multi-year) port transition period that'd at least make it less off-putting.
yequalsx 9y ago
It's possible that Apple has analyzed the market and done some research and concluded that what you want would not generate enough profit vs. their current offerings. Your money that they left on the table is most likely dwarfed by the new found money they are getting. At least, if their research is correct.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  They can't make a spectrum of products that appeal to a variety of users? Ah, I forgot they are strapped for cash.
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    They are not strapped for cash but they evidently don’t think it’s worthwhile to build what you exactly want. They can’t meet all needs of all users. They already have a spectrum of products. It appears one more is not what they think is in their best interests.
- torstenvl 9y ago
  Unit sales and revenue for notebooks fell for Apple from 2015 to 2016. It picked back up in 2017, but not enough to bring it back to 2015 levels. That suggests that the shitty keyboard (which improved mildly in 2017) is a not insignificant factor at the margins.
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    Laptop sales have been declining overall since 2011. I’m not sure looking at unit sales declining is enough evidence that they have made a mistake. I got no dog in this fight. I don’t care either way but it seems foolish to think they haven’t thought things through. If they made a mistake, and they quite possibly did, they’ll try to correct it. In general assuming that personal tastes are normative can lead to incorrect conclusions. Put another way, Apple has way more data points to inform their decisions than you or I. Doesn’t mean they get right though.
codq 9y ago
I'm still powering through with a mid-2009 Core2Duo. I've wanted to upgrade for a while now, but just don't feel an unassailable 'oomph' to do it. Lots of folks say the 2015 rMBP is the gold standard best laptop Apple has ever put out, and I can't disagree. I'd drop some serious cash in a heartbeat for a brand new model that touches on those notes, but the new MBPs just are not even close to where they should be.
- waterphone 9y ago
  I used a 2011 MBP for 6 years until the GPU finally failed, and then downgraded to a 2010 MBP. For most things, I hardly notice any issues with it being underpowered, and I intend to keep using this indefinitely until it no longer functions and isn't easily repairable. I'm unmotivated to buy a new computer I can't repair myself as easily or replace the batteries when they wear out, because I like using my computers for 5 to 10 years and run them into the ground.
  - taylodl 9y ago
    Apple only charges $199 for a new battery for the MBP's not having user-replaceable batteries. Which sounds horrible until you realize a new battery for the old MacBooks was $129 (I've replaced a couple). So really, you're just paying an extra $70 and you're only going to need to do it once over the lifetime of your system, which should be 8-10 years. Not bad.
elsonrodriguez 9y ago
Apple has a long history of deprecating ports and peripherals ahead of the rest of the industry, potentially prematurely. Nobody should be shocked by this anymore, it's part and parcel of being a customer of theirs. However, looking back, they have a pretty good track record regarding what they remove. Keyboards and mice didn't really need separate ports, floppy drives weren't all that great, and optical drives ended up gathering dust in a nice battery-shaped hole.
tjohns 9y ago
I don't quite get the USB port issue... the MBP has 4 of them. They're type-C, but that's the direction all consumer electronics are headed in. All of my daily gear is USB-C now. It's a much more capable port in general. And for legacy USB gear, you can either just swap out for a C-to-B cable, or get a small C-to-A dongle if the cable isn't removable. I'd much rather have the extra type-C ports, myself.
jdc0589 9y ago
The downside for me is the older ones can't drive high res displays at a decent refresh rate. I have a (single) 4k monitor for windows gaming, but I use it a ton with my (company) 2015 macbook pro for work/development, which works great so long as you use thunderbolt -> displayport. Using my personal 2013 macbook pro (13in) with the monitor is a freaking nightmare. It just can't handle the higher res monitor, the mouse looks like its moving in slow motion. Same story on the 2015 macbook pro via hdmi. This on its own will be a huge factor when/if I replace my personal laptop. I'm gonna hold on to it for as long as I can though...
rconti 9y ago
thanks to everyone for putting a totally off-topic post at the top.
Aloha 9y ago
You know, I felt the same way, when the new macs came out - then I thought about it - and I realized I've used the SD card maybe two dozen times over two laptops in 10 years.

adjkant 9y ago

You don't have to get the touch bar, FYI. Most CS people I know opt to go without it and miss pretty much nothing. I agree with the pain of USB-C, but one hub for home and one mobile adapter can solve all that. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

ashark 9y ago
The non-touchbar model has (IIRC) a weaker processor, and removes two of the USB-C ports for no reason aside from Apple's strong desire that you not buy it (instead paying way more for a Touch Bar you don't want, to get those two ports and higher speed back) Plus it's still a little more expensive than the previous base model at launch, I think, despite being worse in quite a few ways.
- adjkant 9y ago
  True, but that worse processor and -2 USB-C ports that I would never use thanks to having to have a hub anyways saves $500. Enough to upgrade the processor to an i7. > Plus it's still a little more expensive than the previous base model at launch, I think, despite being worse in quite a few ways. Besides USB-C, what else is worse compared to the previous model? I had the model before, so not too familiar.
  - ashark 9y ago
    Mostly the lack of ports. We had to buy a ton of new monitors at work because most of our existing ones wouldn't work or didn't work well, even with adapters. If you travel with them you have to carry adapters, because there's only about a 1% chance any given monitor you need to plug into on the road is USB-C. Ditto anything else you might need to plug in. Including your friggin' iPhone. Chance of my doing that with my personal equipment, dropping hundreds on top of the (now higher) price of a new MacBook? Precisely zero. My 2015 will have to serve me until they get their shit together, most of my stuff is upgraded to USB-C anyway (guarantee that's more than 5 years off), or I give up and switch to Arch or something. Some people love the keyboard, some people hate it, so call that a wash. I recently had to use a two-generations-ago MacBook keyboard (last model with an optical drive, I think) after getting very used to 2014+ and the current ultra-thin one, and... I actually liked that one better than both the newer ones, and I don't hate the newest one, it's just less nice to use than the one two generations ago. Also gets crippled by specs of dust, seemingly, which is annoying.
    - adjkant 9y ago
      Yeah, all of that's fair. I would do the same as you, but my old one was on its last legs. In the end, I spent $150 on adapters and have been good to go on my personal setup since, traveling and at home. I'm sure this is a lot bigger nightmare at work. To me in daily life, everything seems fine sans USB-C and touch bar. It's a one-time price hassle that sucks but in the end doesn't end the world. I travel with one adapter that has USB's, HDMI, and a USB-C on it and have yet to run into any issues with it. I wish Apple actually made decent hubs that didn't cost a small fortune, and I do hope they get their shit together next model as well. I just think that the sky isn't falling. You said it was worse in quite a few ways, but I think it's really just 1-2 big ones that can be fixed. > We had to buy a ton of new monitors at work because most of our existing ones wouldn't work or didn't work well, even with adapters. The biggest issue is the adapter market is absolute shit. I got lucky with two good ones.
      - ashark 9y ago
        > I just think that the sky isn't falling. You said it was worse in quite a few ways, but I think it's really just 1-2 big ones that can be fixed. Well, it was several ports they replaced :-) But yeah, it's not that I think the new ones are junk or anything. I have one for work. It's fine if you have USB-C stuff with it and if making sure you have that crap is someone else's problem, and expense. There's just no way I'm paying more for one of them than the previous model, for my personal laptop, because I use every port on there all the time—except the Apple ones (lightning/displayport? I can never keep the names straight) and don't have a single USB-C device in my house. If the new model came with a really great multiport hub/dock thingy to get us through this (multi-year) port transition period that'd at least make it less off-putting.

yequalsx 9y ago

It's possible that Apple has analyzed the market and done some research and concluded that what you want would not generate enough profit vs. their current offerings. Your money that they left on the table is most likely dwarfed by the new found money they are getting. At least, if their research is correct.

beamatronic 9y ago
They can't make a spectrum of products that appeal to a variety of users? Ah, I forgot they are strapped for cash.
- yequalsx 9y ago
  They are not strapped for cash but they evidently don’t think it’s worthwhile to build what you exactly want. They can’t meet all needs of all users. They already have a spectrum of products. It appears one more is not what they think is in their best interests.
torstenvl 9y ago
Unit sales and revenue for notebooks fell for Apple from 2015 to 2016. It picked back up in 2017, but not enough to bring it back to 2015 levels. That suggests that the shitty keyboard (which improved mildly in 2017) is a not insignificant factor at the margins.
- yequalsx 9y ago
  Laptop sales have been declining overall since 2011. I’m not sure looking at unit sales declining is enough evidence that they have made a mistake. I got no dog in this fight. I don’t care either way but it seems foolish to think they haven’t thought things through. If they made a mistake, and they quite possibly did, they’ll try to correct it. In general assuming that personal tastes are normative can lead to incorrect conclusions. Put another way, Apple has way more data points to inform their decisions than you or I. Doesn’t mean they get right though.

codq 9y ago

I'm still powering through with a mid-2009 Core2Duo. I've wanted to upgrade for a while now, but just don't feel an unassailable 'oomph' to do it. Lots of folks say the 2015 rMBP is the gold standard best laptop Apple has ever put out, and I can't disagree. I'd drop some serious cash in a heartbeat for a brand new model that touches on those notes, but the new MBPs just are not even close to where they should be.

waterphone 9y ago
I used a 2011 MBP for 6 years until the GPU finally failed, and then downgraded to a 2010 MBP. For most things, I hardly notice any issues with it being underpowered, and I intend to keep using this indefinitely until it no longer functions and isn't easily repairable. I'm unmotivated to buy a new computer I can't repair myself as easily or replace the batteries when they wear out, because I like using my computers for 5 to 10 years and run them into the ground.
- taylodl 9y ago
  Apple only charges $199 for a new battery for the MBP's not having user-replaceable batteries. Which sounds horrible until you realize a new battery for the old MacBooks was $129 (I've replaced a couple). So really, you're just paying an extra $70 and you're only going to need to do it once over the lifetime of your system, which should be 8-10 years. Not bad.

elsonrodriguez 9y ago

Apple has a long history of deprecating ports and peripherals ahead of the rest of the industry, potentially prematurely. Nobody should be shocked by this anymore, it's part and parcel of being a customer of theirs. However, looking back, they have a pretty good track record regarding what they remove. Keyboards and mice didn't really need separate ports, floppy drives weren't all that great, and optical drives ended up gathering dust in a nice battery-shaped hole.

tjohns 9y ago

I don't quite get the USB port issue... the MBP has 4 of them. They're type-C, but that's the direction all consumer electronics are headed in. All of my daily gear is USB-C now. It's a much more capable port in general. And for legacy USB gear, you can either just swap out for a C-to-B cable, or get a small C-to-A dongle if the cable isn't removable. I'd much rather have the extra type-C ports, myself.

jdc0589 9y ago

The downside for me is the older ones can't drive high res displays at a decent refresh rate. I have a (single) 4k monitor for windows gaming, but I use it a ton with my (company) 2015 macbook pro for work/development, which works great so long as you use thunderbolt -> displayport. Using my personal 2013 macbook pro (13in) with the monitor is a freaking nightmare. It just can't handle the higher res monitor, the mouse looks like its moving in slow motion. Same story on the 2015 macbook pro via hdmi. This on its own will be a huge factor when/if I replace my personal laptop. I'm gonna hold on to it for as long as I can though...

rconti 9y ago

thanks to everyone for putting a totally off-topic post at the top.

Aloha 9y ago

You know, I felt the same way, when the new macs came out - then I thought about it - and I realized I've used the SD card maybe two dozen times over two laptops in 10 years.