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Taking a bigger picture view, this makes me wonder.. we took so much effort to move from the industrial age, where hands on work, always active all day work too

Taking a bigger picture view, this makes me wonder.. we took so much effort to move from the industrial age, where hands on work, always active all day work took its toll on workers, to the service or knowledge age, where we sit all day and that takes its toll. Surely the answer lies somewhere in-between, that we must rest, and we must move, and the amount of each must be relative to each person and activity. I would prefer to see studies not just trying to prove things bad (we have enough of those), but focuses on what can be proven to be a positive, for example, the optimal mixture of activity and rest for different people and situations. For example, in addition to "sitting may be bad for your heart" (while necessary and important), I would like to see more of the studies that say "for age group <Y>, occupation <Z>, walking for <N> interval followed by resting for <M> interval increased <X> or <Y> positive benefits". Since we automated a lot of manual labor, maybe the next big thing is automating sitting all day so we can get up and walk around.

_carl_jung 9y ago
You might like Spark by John Ratey. That book dives into a bunch of the studies related to this kind of book and got me off my ass and into the gym.
CM30 9y ago
Stick the computer on an exercise bike, set it up so its powered by a dynamo and get the programming, marketing and sales teams to cycle while working. Okay, that's not a good idea, but it's one I can see a executive coming up with to 'promote a healthy lifestyle' at one of those newfangled offices Apple and Google and the likes have.
- skummetmaelk 9y ago
  Enforce mandatory installation of a processor throttling program, tied to an exercise bike, on all software developer machines. This should prevent them from slacking off when compiling!
- tintor 9y ago
  Apple and Google already have walking treadmill desks, which serves the same purpose.
  - mc32 9y ago
    Do they get used much, or do they sit unused, somewhere out of the way?
    - jpm_sd 9y ago
      There's approximately one per floor, and they often sit idle.
- ibdf 9y ago
  My co-worker has bike peddles underneath his standing desk. So he either stands most of the day while working or sits down and peddle some. I was laughing at first, but it actually seems like a good idea. I am not sure if he is healthier or more productive but he is happy ;)
- woolvalley 9y ago
  I actually find it hard to focus or type when I use something like that. It's kind of like how you turn down the music when you want to focus on something when driving.
- the_af 9y ago
  > Stick the computer on an exercise bike, set it up so its powered by a dynamo and get the programming, marketing and sales teams to cycle while working. I liked that Black Mirror episode.
- FooHentai 9y ago
  >exercise bike 10 years time, headline reads: Male office workers sperm counts plummeting, bike-desks blamed. "These people should be spending more time sitting" says talking head with vague academic credentials slightly linked to the subject matter.
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  There might be easier ways depending on where you live. For the new year (and new job), I'm trying to find an apartment ~1mi away from work along a pedestrian friendly route. I plan to walk to/from work on every good weather day. If I get an hour for lunch, I could even go home for a quick lunch. I used to do this when I worked in Manhattan and the 1.5hrs of walking were great. I'll admit this may not be enough exercise for your needs, but it is a good forced way to get very regular exercise, and perhaps part of a good overall plan that incldues a gym as well.
sliverstorm 9y ago
I always understood a lot of the industrial age jobs took a toll because of hazards & health issues. Occupational hazards like mine collapse & black lung, heavy machinery, fumes, and so forth. Are there many accounts of people simply being "all worn out" from hands on work? Are, e.g., lumberjacks who aren't injured, healthy or worn thin?
- bluGill 9y ago
  Yes, but it isn't clear if they are worn out from 45 years of physical labor, or worn out because their body is 65 years old.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    Presumably that's what studies would be for. Compare the joints of an office worker to the joints of an uninjured lumberjack.
    - Florin_Andrei 9y ago
      Sure. Now compare their amounts of muscular mass, and the percentages of body fat. I think the real problem is doing the same thing many hours a day, every day, all year long, for decades. Whether that's sitting, or felling trees, it appears to be equally bad, just in different ways. We are shaped by evolution for a more varied lifestyle.
- jhayward 9y ago
  Go ask anyone aged 45 or over, who does physical labor - construction workers, electricians, farm workers, flatbed truck drivers. They will all tell you of the severe toll on their muscles, bones, and most specifically joints. Shoulders, elbows, hands, knees, and backs get to a point of being functionally disabled. So, yes, physical labor, even with full OSHA support, will wear your body out. Alongside all those structural injuries seems to come a penumbra of other illnesses, like heart and kidney disease.
  - 9y ago
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
> Surely the answer lies somewhere in-between, that we must rest, and we must move I think the biggest change we made that caught us completely unprepared, was that we've committed ourselves to doing the same thing 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, all year long, for decades. I don't think our bodies evolved for this kind of effort (and I use the word "effort" even when the activity requires a lot of sitting, which is appropriate as the article shows). If you look at hunter-gatherer societies, their activity is more "bursty", more casual. They go gather stuff for a couple hours, then rest; then perhaps do something else. They go hunt something, which is harder, and then rest a longer time. Etc. There might be periods of intense activity, then longer times of rest, or diminished effort. There are also seasonal variations. The executive functions behind our foreheads, with their long term planning and their delayed gratification, are really pushing us pretty hard in directions that we're not fully adapted to. Perhaps something similar happened to our diet. Three meals a day, every day, for decades - that's a very recent change in diet. It used to be a lot more "lumpy" throughout the whole evolutionary past that has shaped us.
- slphil 9y ago
  While nothing you said is inaccurate, be careful of falling for the "original affluent society" canard. Hunter gatherers do not work less than we do, and they do not get enough food. (Quillette recently did a good write-up on this.)
  - Florin_Andrei 9y ago
    Right. Something that modern society is good at is smoothing out random variations. After a local catastrophe, the rest of the country (or, sometimes, the world) will lend you a helping hand nowadays. But back then, your whole tribe would get wiped out. Similar for non-life-threatening events. Food input decrease in your area? You barely notice it in the somewhat higher prices, because society is routing food to you from other places. But your hunter-gatherer ancestors would be hungry for days or weeks. We're better adapted for a harsh, variable environment, and it's funny how our cozy, temperature-controlled dwellings are causing a whole host of new issues.
  - 9y ago
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
> I would prefer to see studies not just trying to prove things bad (we have enough of those), but focuses on what can be proven to be a positive The thing is, we dont know yet So youll have to settle for conflicting studies about coffee and red wine consumption forwarded from your loved ones
tomcooks 9y ago
I found out that most doctor's advice is so sane and blunt nobody listens to it. You need something more clickbaitish and with a catchy name like paleofit, restcharging or standoori
always_good 9y ago
While certainly nice to have, your wishlist of studies isn't very actionable in our world where nobody really exercises at all. It's not like the average person is erring on the side of moving too much. Moving at all would be a good start.

_carl_jung 9y ago

You might like Spark by John Ratey. That book dives into a bunch of the studies related to this kind of book and got me off my ass and into the gym.

CM30 9y ago

Stick the computer on an exercise bike, set it up so its powered by a dynamo and get the programming, marketing and sales teams to cycle while working. Okay, that's not a good idea, but it's one I can see a executive coming up with to 'promote a healthy lifestyle' at one of those newfangled offices Apple and Google and the likes have.

skummetmaelk 9y ago
Enforce mandatory installation of a processor throttling program, tied to an exercise bike, on all software developer machines. This should prevent them from slacking off when compiling!
tintor 9y ago
Apple and Google already have walking treadmill desks, which serves the same purpose.
- mc32 9y ago
  Do they get used much, or do they sit unused, somewhere out of the way?
  - jpm_sd 9y ago
    There's approximately one per floor, and they often sit idle.
ibdf 9y ago
My co-worker has bike peddles underneath his standing desk. So he either stands most of the day while working or sits down and peddle some. I was laughing at first, but it actually seems like a good idea. I am not sure if he is healthier or more productive but he is happy ;)
woolvalley 9y ago
I actually find it hard to focus or type when I use something like that. It's kind of like how you turn down the music when you want to focus on something when driving.
the_af 9y ago
> Stick the computer on an exercise bike, set it up so its powered by a dynamo and get the programming, marketing and sales teams to cycle while working. I liked that Black Mirror episode.
FooHentai 9y ago
>exercise bike 10 years time, headline reads: Male office workers sperm counts plummeting, bike-desks blamed. "These people should be spending more time sitting" says talking head with vague academic credentials slightly linked to the subject matter.
TuringNYC 9y ago
There might be easier ways depending on where you live. For the new year (and new job), I'm trying to find an apartment ~1mi away from work along a pedestrian friendly route. I plan to walk to/from work on every good weather day. If I get an hour for lunch, I could even go home for a quick lunch. I used to do this when I worked in Manhattan and the 1.5hrs of walking were great. I'll admit this may not be enough exercise for your needs, but it is a good forced way to get very regular exercise, and perhaps part of a good overall plan that incldues a gym as well.

sliverstorm 9y ago

I always understood a lot of the industrial age jobs took a toll because of hazards & health issues. Occupational hazards like mine collapse & black lung, heavy machinery, fumes, and so forth. Are there many accounts of people simply being "all worn out" from hands on work? Are, e.g., lumberjacks who aren't injured, healthy or worn thin?

bluGill 9y ago
Yes, but it isn't clear if they are worn out from 45 years of physical labor, or worn out because their body is 65 years old.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  Presumably that's what studies would be for. Compare the joints of an office worker to the joints of an uninjured lumberjack.
  - Florin_Andrei 9y ago
    Sure. Now compare their amounts of muscular mass, and the percentages of body fat. I think the real problem is doing the same thing many hours a day, every day, all year long, for decades. Whether that's sitting, or felling trees, it appears to be equally bad, just in different ways. We are shaped by evolution for a more varied lifestyle.
jhayward 9y ago
Go ask anyone aged 45 or over, who does physical labor - construction workers, electricians, farm workers, flatbed truck drivers. They will all tell you of the severe toll on their muscles, bones, and most specifically joints. Shoulders, elbows, hands, knees, and backs get to a point of being functionally disabled. So, yes, physical labor, even with full OSHA support, will wear your body out. Alongside all those structural injuries seems to come a penumbra of other illnesses, like heart and kidney disease.
- 9y ago

Florin_Andrei 9y ago

> Surely the answer lies somewhere in-between, that we must rest, and we must move I think the biggest change we made that caught us completely unprepared, was that we've committed ourselves to doing the same thing 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, all year long, for decades. I don't think our bodies evolved for this kind of effort (and I use the word "effort" even when the activity requires a lot of sitting, which is appropriate as the article shows). If you look at hunter-gatherer societies, their activity is more "bursty", more casual. They go gather stuff for a couple hours, then rest; then perhaps do something else. They go hunt something, which is harder, and then rest a longer time. Etc. There might be periods of intense activity, then longer times of rest, or diminished effort. There are also seasonal variations. The executive functions behind our foreheads, with their long term planning and their delayed gratification, are really pushing us pretty hard in directions that we're not fully adapted to. Perhaps something similar happened to our diet. Three meals a day, every day, for decades - that's a very recent change in diet. It used to be a lot more "lumpy" throughout the whole evolutionary past that has shaped us.

slphil 9y ago
While nothing you said is inaccurate, be careful of falling for the "original affluent society" canard. Hunter gatherers do not work less than we do, and they do not get enough food. (Quillette recently did a good write-up on this.)
- Florin_Andrei 9y ago
  Right. Something that modern society is good at is smoothing out random variations. After a local catastrophe, the rest of the country (or, sometimes, the world) will lend you a helping hand nowadays. But back then, your whole tribe would get wiped out. Similar for non-life-threatening events. Food input decrease in your area? You barely notice it in the somewhat higher prices, because society is routing food to you from other places. But your hunter-gatherer ancestors would be hungry for days or weeks. We're better adapted for a harsh, variable environment, and it's funny how our cozy, temperature-controlled dwellings are causing a whole host of new issues.
- 9y ago

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

> I would prefer to see studies not just trying to prove things bad (we have enough of those), but focuses on what can be proven to be a positive The thing is, we dont know yet So youll have to settle for conflicting studies about coffee and red wine consumption forwarded from your loved ones

tomcooks 9y ago

I found out that most doctor's advice is so sane and blunt nobody listens to it. You need something more clickbaitish and with a catchy name like paleofit, restcharging or standoori

always_good 9y ago

While certainly nice to have, your wishlist of studies isn't very actionable in our world where nobody really exercises at all. It's not like the average person is erring on the side of moving too much. Moving at all would be a good start.