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I remain confused about the pay figure the NYTimes gave for subway workers; I have a close relative who works in the subway and I know a number of subway worker

I remain confused about the pay figure the NYTimes gave for subway workers; I have a close relative who works in the subway and I know a number of subway workers, and none of them make anything close to that kind of salary, even counting overtime. So unless that counts something other than the hourly employees, or counts pension contributions as salary (in which case it is just an argument against pensions), I have a hard time believing it. I also have no idea what better alternative there is when a contract negotiation fails. Is the system supposed to stop altogether until a new contract is agreed upon? Are the workers expected to go without pay? The fact is that the union's demands have not been unreasonable -- they ask to keep benefits, to have pay increases that basically track the cost of living in NYC, and occasional to expand low-cost benefits (e.g. allowing all employees to ride LIRR and MNR for free, rather than just employees who live outside NYC).

Spooky23 9y ago
Normal government workers in NY cost about 150% of salary due to benefits and pension costs. A big part of this is that NY law requires that the pensions get funded... many states ignore pension contributions and operate at a lower cost. MTA has other unusual issues... they have a very powerful union that has negotiated wacky deals over the years. In some areas, pretty much everyone retires with dramatically more expensive disability retirements. (See: https://nypost.com/2014/08/06/nearly-all-lirr-workers-have-disability-payments-approved/ https://nypost.com/2014/08/06/nearly-all-lirr-workers-have-d... )They also have the ability to "spike" pensions with overtime that most NY government workers outside of police and fire cannot do.
- gozur88 9y ago
  Pension spiking happens everywhere. Here in California we had a retired fire chief drawing a $400k pension because he basically worked around the clock the year he retired.
- betterunix2 9y ago
  The LIRR is a separate union with a totally different retirement system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_Act The subway workers are represented by TWU local 100; LIRR workers are represented by 7 different unions, all separate from the subway workers.
gozur88 9y ago
>So unless that counts something other than the hourly employees, or counts pension contributions as salary (in which case it is just an argument against pensions), I have a hard time believing it. Usually if the figure includes benefits (as it does in this case) the pension contributions are included. Along with things like medical,life, and disability insurance. Usually when you total everything up it comes to around twice what people get paid. I worked at a place with federal civil servants, and the total cost to the government for a civil servant was costed out at 2.2x salary.
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vkou 9y ago
> pay increases that basically track the cost of living in NYC There's the problem. Half the population is convinced that the people who do all the work to make living in a city possible should not be able to afford to live in said city. San Francisco is the most extreme example of this insanity, where everyone in the service sector either has multi-hour commutes, or live in a closet with 3 other roommates.

Spooky23 9y ago

Normal government workers in NY cost about 150% of salary due to benefits and pension costs. A big part of this is that NY law requires that the pensions get funded... many states ignore pension contributions and operate at a lower cost. MTA has other unusual issues... they have a very powerful union that has negotiated wacky deals over the years. In some areas, pretty much everyone retires with dramatically more expensive disability retirements. (See: https://nypost.com/2014/08/06/nearly-all-lirr-workers-have-disability-payments-approved/ https://nypost.com/2014/08/06/nearly-all-lirr-workers-have-d... )They also have the ability to "spike" pensions with overtime that most NY government workers outside of police and fire cannot do.

gozur88 9y ago
Pension spiking happens everywhere. Here in California we had a retired fire chief drawing a $400k pension because he basically worked around the clock the year he retired.
betterunix2 9y ago
The LIRR is a separate union with a totally different retirement system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Retirement_Act The subway workers are represented by TWU local 100; LIRR workers are represented by 7 different unions, all separate from the subway workers.

gozur88 9y ago

>So unless that counts something other than the hourly employees, or counts pension contributions as salary (in which case it is just an argument against pensions), I have a hard time believing it. Usually if the figure includes benefits (as it does in this case) the pension contributions are included. Along with things like medical,life, and disability insurance. Usually when you total everything up it comes to around twice what people get paid. I worked at a place with federal civil servants, and the total cost to the government for a civil servant was costed out at 2.2x salary.

deleted 9y ago

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vkou 9y ago

> pay increases that basically track the cost of living in NYC There's the problem. Half the population is convinced that the people who do all the work to make living in a city possible should not be able to afford to live in said city. San Francisco is the most extreme example of this insanity, where everyone in the service sector either has multi-hour commutes, or live in a closet with 3 other roommates.