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That may be technically true, but we should be comparing ourselves to other countries that have had to tackle the same problems. Consider the Paris Métro[1], w

That may be technically true, but we should be comparing ourselves to other countries that have had to tackle the same problems. Consider the Paris Métro[1], which is even older than the NYC subway system (1900 vs 1904). They have much better service, lower capital and operating costs, automated trains, etc. We need to take a hard look at ourselves and stop using NYC exceptionalism as an excuse. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Métro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Métro

lordCarbonFiber 9y ago
It also doesn't run 24/7. That's the triumph (and huge complexity multiplier) of the nyc subway system. Having a always on (for some value of always) transit system is a big draw but also a maintenance nightmare.
- Retric 9y ago
  Being 24/7 just takes redundancy. If you have 2+ lines from A <> B, you can single track them during low demand times and with care take any part of the system offline without shutting down. NYC density increases costs in some ways, but it also makes means they can spend far less to maintain roads / street lights / etc. On top of that the high average and median earnings means NYC has an enviable tax base.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > Being 24/7 just takes redundancy. If you have 2+ lines from A <> B, you can single track them during low demand times and with care take any part of the system offline without shutting down. Not all lines have four tracks (some only have two), and even for the ones that do, running trains while work is going on means incredibly slow and delayed service.
    - bdhess 9y ago
      I don’t think you understood what parent meant by “single track”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        > I don’t think you understood what parent meant by “single track”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working I understand what they meant; I'm explaining that even when running trains on dedicated tracks (e.g. the local line is shut down for maintenance, but the express line still runs), it causes delays that many find unbearable. Running trains in both directions on a single track would degrade service even further. At that point, it may very well just be better to shut the entire line down temporarily, which is what they generally do.
        betterunix2 9y ago
        In fact, single-tracking in most of the subway degrades service even more than it technically needs to, due to the inability of the interlocking system to reverse track directions. To single track the MTA has to tie down the stop arms and coordinate by radio, and it is almost never worth it. The MTA does sometimes use single tracking in the East River tunnels, where the interlocking allows the track direction to be reversed. For comparison, the entire PATH system supports changing the track direction, and single-tracking is relatively common during weekends. Of course, the PATH is much smaller and has a different history behind it, not to mention totally different legal requirements (it is a "railroad" rather than a heavy rail system).
        chimeracoder 9y ago
        > In fact, single-tracking in most of the subway degrades service even more than it technically needs to, due to the inability of the interlocking system to reverse track directions. To single track the MTA has to tie down the stop arms and coordinate by radio, and it is almost never worth it. The MTA does sometimes use single tracking in the East River tunnels, where the interlocking allows the track direction to be reversed. Thanks for adding this - I'd forgotten about that.

lordCarbonFiber 9y ago

It also doesn't run 24/7. That's the triumph (and huge complexity multiplier) of the nyc subway system. Having a always on (for some value of always) transit system is a big draw but also a maintenance nightmare.

Retric 9y ago
Being 24/7 just takes redundancy. If you have 2+ lines from A <> B, you can single track them during low demand times and with care take any part of the system offline without shutting down. NYC density increases costs in some ways, but it also makes means they can spend far less to maintain roads / street lights / etc. On top of that the high average and median earnings means NYC has an enviable tax base.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > Being 24/7 just takes redundancy. If you have 2+ lines from A <> B, you can single track them during low demand times and with care take any part of the system offline without shutting down. Not all lines have four tracks (some only have two), and even for the ones that do, running trains while work is going on means incredibly slow and delayed service.
  - bdhess 9y ago
    I don’t think you understood what parent meant by “single track”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > I don’t think you understood what parent meant by “single track”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-line_working I understand what they meant; I'm explaining that even when running trains on dedicated tracks (e.g. the local line is shut down for maintenance, but the express line still runs), it causes delays that many find unbearable. Running trains in both directions on a single track would degrade service even further. At that point, it may very well just be better to shut the entire line down temporarily, which is what they generally do.
      - betterunix2 9y ago
        In fact, single-tracking in most of the subway degrades service even more than it technically needs to, due to the inability of the interlocking system to reverse track directions. To single track the MTA has to tie down the stop arms and coordinate by radio, and it is almost never worth it. The MTA does sometimes use single tracking in the East River tunnels, where the interlocking allows the track direction to be reversed. For comparison, the entire PATH system supports changing the track direction, and single-tracking is relatively common during weekends. Of course, the PATH is much smaller and has a different history behind it, not to mention totally different legal requirements (it is a "railroad" rather than a heavy rail system).
        chimeracoder 9y ago
        > In fact, single-tracking in most of the subway degrades service even more than it technically needs to, due to the inability of the interlocking system to reverse track directions. To single track the MTA has to tie down the stop arms and coordinate by radio, and it is almost never worth it. The MTA does sometimes use single tracking in the East River tunnels, where the interlocking allows the track direction to be reversed. Thanks for adding this - I'd forgotten about that.