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I wouldn't necessarily put Clojure between JRuby and Scala (I hope I am not misinterpreting). I think it should be more along side of JRuby depending on the typ

I wouldn't necessarily put Clojure between JRuby and Scala (I hope I am not misinterpreting). I think it should be more along side of JRuby depending on the type of problem you are trying to tackle, it supports a totally different paradigm of programming.

DanielRibeiro 16y ago
This is our options. Jruby and clojure are both dynamic, and we prefer them over static typing of Scala. But jruby is closer to ruby, therefore clojure takes the second place in our list. Scala's type inference makes the typing a lot less of burden, when compared to java, but it is still there. Just our options. Feel free to make your own. People with lots of Groovy experience may choose Groovy, and those who really don't need much metaprogramming support may choose Scala. This is just not our case. Some people also feel very uncomfortable with the lack of almost perfect auto-complete. Ctrl+k (text complete) on Netbeans is magical enough for us most of the time. We use lots of TDD, such that we can also refactor safely, therefore, type safety feels more like a burden when writing tests for things that don't exist on statically typed languages than on dynamic. Again, is a matter of taste as well.
rossedwards 16y ago
The problem is that there really isnt any definition of languages within the java landscape right now. Meaning theres a bunch of languages but noen really stand out for any specifc uses with the expection of people that know them well and are using them well. So its very confusing to know which to use. For example Grails and groovy were supposed to be big on the java framework but due to seveeral reasons they seem to be really more niche. PArtly because it seems the people behind both of them just arent dealing wiht the problems such as bugs quickly enough. Scala is an interesting language but again there doesnt seem to be a heavy push for it. Expect for peopel that are using it and know what its strengths are. All of which leads to alot of confusion about which technology to use. Then theres the issue of frameworks. Theres a million of them but none of them really stand out. ANd personally i dont think it helps that oracle is no running things. On the other hand ruby is known by many people as being pretty powerful and used by alot of startups. Same thing with php. How many startups do you know that use java? I know foursqaure uses liftweb but thats about it.
- DanielRibeiro 16y ago
  Just because you are not aware of what is being used, does not mean that it is not used. Scala startups: KaChing (follow http://twitter.com/eishay http://twitter.com/eishay for more info, he talks a lot about the Lean startup practises on Kaching as well) and Etherpad (wave-like product, bought by google last year). Eishay also gave a great hint for startups looking for scalable technologies: http://twitter.com/eishay/statuses/20478841811 http://twitter.com/eishay/statuses/20478841811 Flightcaster, which is funded by YCombinator, uses clojure and Ruby on heroku (more on their infoq profile: http://www.infoq.com/articles/flightcaster-clojure-rails http://www.infoq.com/articles/flightcaster-clojure-rails). Most startups are not actually vocal about what they use. Most of them actually are not heard, so they could be as vocal as they wanted and still noone would hear them.

DanielRibeiro 16y ago

This is our options. Jruby and clojure are both dynamic, and we prefer them over static typing of Scala. But jruby is closer to ruby, therefore clojure takes the second place in our list. Scala's type inference makes the typing a lot less of burden, when compared to java, but it is still there. Just our options. Feel free to make your own. People with lots of Groovy experience may choose Groovy, and those who really don't need much metaprogramming support may choose Scala. This is just not our case. Some people also feel very uncomfortable with the lack of almost perfect auto-complete. Ctrl+k (text complete) on Netbeans is magical enough for us most of the time. We use lots of TDD, such that we can also refactor safely, therefore, type safety feels more like a burden when writing tests for things that don't exist on statically typed languages than on dynamic. Again, is a matter of taste as well.

rossedwards 16y ago

The problem is that there really isnt any definition of languages within the java landscape right now. Meaning theres a bunch of languages but noen really stand out for any specifc uses with the expection of people that know them well and are using them well. So its very confusing to know which to use. For example Grails and groovy were supposed to be big on the java framework but due to seveeral reasons they seem to be really more niche. PArtly because it seems the people behind both of them just arent dealing wiht the problems such as bugs quickly enough. Scala is an interesting language but again there doesnt seem to be a heavy push for it. Expect for peopel that are using it and know what its strengths are. All of which leads to alot of confusion about which technology to use. Then theres the issue of frameworks. Theres a million of them but none of them really stand out. ANd personally i dont think it helps that oracle is no running things. On the other hand ruby is known by many people as being pretty powerful and used by alot of startups. Same thing with php. How many startups do you know that use java? I know foursqaure uses liftweb but thats about it.

DanielRibeiro 16y ago
Just because you are not aware of what is being used, does not mean that it is not used. Scala startups: KaChing (follow http://twitter.com/eishay http://twitter.com/eishay for more info, he talks a lot about the Lean startup practises on Kaching as well) and Etherpad (wave-like product, bought by google last year). Eishay also gave a great hint for startups looking for scalable technologies: http://twitter.com/eishay/statuses/20478841811 http://twitter.com/eishay/statuses/20478841811 Flightcaster, which is funded by YCombinator, uses clojure and Ruby on heroku (more on their infoq profile: http://www.infoq.com/articles/flightcaster-clojure-rails http://www.infoq.com/articles/flightcaster-clojure-rails). Most startups are not actually vocal about what they use. Most of them actually are not heard, so they could be as vocal as they wanted and still noone would hear them.