8 ms·

Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy and the laws change at the whim of the rulers. Read the journal of this blogger who got arrested there https://www.bbc.com/n

Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy and the laws change at the whim of the rulers. Read the journal of this blogger who got arrested there https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-trending-38804499 https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-trending-38804499, the people(the foreign nationals) who were in jail with him...

lowry 9y ago
Just FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka. They share quite a few traits.
- vim_wannabe 9y ago
  I knew this was somehow his fault. Thanks, trump. Looks like their crypto currency plans are going to be similar too...
- docdeek 9y ago
  I imagine all leaders share some traits no matter how good, evil, or truly monstrous they are. The reality is, however, that Americans can vote their leader out of office in a couple of years while in Belarus they just cannot.
  - vbezhenar 9y ago
    Of course they can. They just chose to re-elect him. Belarus is a democratic republic with proper election system.
    - kbart 9y ago
      It's not hard to choose when there's only 1 real candidate. USSR had elections too.
      - vbezhenar 9y ago
        There were 4 candidates on the last elections. More than in US, AFAIK.
        kingofhdds 9y ago
        Like it means something, there was just one controlling counting of votes. Sorry, even his fans here in Belarus don't take 'elections' seriously.
        pound 9y ago
        Every election in Belarus in the last couple of decades is a circus. Lukashenko rules for 23 years now having complete control over elections.
        varjag 9y ago
        The US had scores of candidates, if you think it's any useful metric. http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm There are effectively no elections held in Belarus since 1994. Any true contenders are crushed and imprisoned, and the votes aren't counted either way.
        d__k 9y ago
        It is not about the number of candidates and freedom of choice. A true democracy needs its own Guantanamo (US) and citizens of 1st and 2nd classes (Estonia, Latvia). And the most important factor is who is your friend because these friends will eventually decide who you are. There were many classical dictatorships which were treated as democracies and vice versa.
- zerr 9y ago
  At least Americans can vote against Trump on the next elections.
- kingofhdds 9y ago
  <<ust FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka.>> Not true. I'm Belarusian, and it's the first time I'm seeing this. I cannot say for every compatriot, of course, but "Belarusians often refer" implies something well-known, and it's not the case here. Truth be told, thoughts of majority of Belarusians do not revolve around US policy.
- Neku42 9y ago
  Belarusian here. I would describe Donald Trump as american Yeltsin, but whatever.
  - sirfz 9y ago
    That's funny, although Trump doesn't drink but this kinda makes sense
cies 9y ago
Any gov't were lobby has more power then voters is by definition not a democracy. > the laws change at the whim of the rulers. There are not too many (probably non at all) places were law changes are voted on by the general public directly. I really do not think that calling some place "undemocratic" helps. What is more interesting to me is to what extend a place rulers/rules promote or counter oppression.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > I really do not think that calling some place "undemocratic" helps Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Commerce doesn't care about "what extend [sic]...rulers/rules promote or counter oppression." It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will last, the odds of your employees being jailed for falling out of political favor, whether favorable rules (such as this one) could be re-written, again on someone's whim, et cetera. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-political-science/article/div-classtitledemocracy-political-stability-and-economic-growthdiv/1630FBD0E7690CAF595EE9C612E405AE https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-p...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - lowry 9y ago
    Thanks for the link, but you should have given the one to directly download the article: https://sci-hub.la/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0007123497000197 https://sci-hub.la/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0007123497000197
  - cies 9y ago
    > Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Good for the economies. But some great economies happen in non-democratic places. It tells me nothing. I'm more concerned with fighting oppression than promoting the growth of "healthier economy" (what ever that may mean). > It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will last Investment of worker's means (like his house): sure. Investment of a billionaires fortune: I do not give a shit, it's not in my interest to protect that kind of investment. For the record: I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. > the odds of your employees being jailed for falling out of political favor Now THAT'S oppression right there! I really hate that to happen, not because some company owner has to find a new employee, but because a person and their social environment is ripped to pieces. > whether favorable rules (such as this one) could be re-written, again on someone's whim Rules favourable to what? Billionaires? Or the common people? Ask yourself: can you really define the word "economy" unambiguously? Or are you chasing a spook?
ceasarby 9y ago
This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest. Belarus as law-abiding member of Interpol just complied with rules, he was extradited to the country that made request, afaik. I wouldn't trust the guy who broke the law on purpose. What he did is entered the territory using a fake passport, after he was specifically told by the government the he can't do this. And he did it not for any valid reason, but just to create hype in his blog. Pretty idiotic thing to do. Anyway situation with this blogger is totally irrelevant to the Decree of Digital Economy that was signed today.
- throwawaymanbot 9y ago
  By its founding principals, Interpol honors requests from places that it really shouldnt. So The fact that someone can trigger something like that, does not mean someones guilty of anything other than getting on the nerves of a dictator. (Check out Russia and Bill Browder for example, Russia uses interpol to hassle him)
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest I am having trouble finding an independent source for this claim.
  - ceasarby 9y ago
    https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus. Российско-израильский блогер Александр Лапшин был задержан в Минске 14 декабря 2016 года по запросу Азербайджана, который объявил его в международный розыск за незаконное посещение Нагорного Карабаха. The Russian-Israeli blogger Alexander Lapshin was detained in Minsk on December 14, 2016 at the request of Azerbaijan, who declared him on the international wanted list for illegally visiting Nagorno-Karabakh. Лукашенко заявил, а Шуневич подтвердил, что Лапшин был задержан в Минске не по инициативе Азербайджана, а потому, что находился в розыске по линии Интерпола. "Мы согласно решению Интерпола его задержали. И согласно всем законам и порядку мы должны его передать Азербайджану. Lukashenko said, and Shunevich (Minister of Internal Affairs) confirmed that Lapshin was detained in Minsk not on the initiative of Azerbaijan, but because he was wanted by the Interpol line. "We, according to the decision of Interpol, detained him and, according to all laws and order, we must transfer it to Azerbaijan. Belarus had no interest in this guy and his destiny. He has 3 citizenship (Russia, Israel and Ukraine (denounced)) and got himself in the middle of Azerbaijan-Armenian conflict. All this countries, except for Ukraine wanted Belarus to do something different, release him, transfer him, etc. Belarus just did what international law says and washed the hands off. Right after he was transferred to Azerbaijan he apologized for wrong-doing and was released by the president of Azerbaijan and sent home to Israel.
Fiahil 9y ago
> Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy Democracies are overrated. It's not the "silver-bullet-regime", and has it's own set of flaws compared to others. Why is everyone thinking that living in a democracy makes de-facto your life better ?
- nxsynonym 9y ago
  Nobody said it living in a democracy makes your life better, the comment only mentioned it because it means that laws are not iron-clad and can change on a dime - which means the news that offering full bitcoin regulation could easily change tomorrow.
fpoling 9y ago
The thing about Belarus is not that laws change at whim. They are not. According a lawyer I know from Belarus in courts small and not so small cases are considered rather fairly. One in principle can count that in a daily life rule of laws applies and the level of corruption is not that bad. But the moment your case is perceived by authorities as political or somebody with power finds your business interesting, one gets BIG troubles. Now, by playing by the rules one can protect somewhat from the "business" interests, so the situation is better than, for example, in Russia. But political part is very unpredictable and it is impossible to know which action can cross the line.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > The thing about Belarus is not that laws change at whim. They are not. Lukashenko is a dictator. Being able to change laws at a whim is a defining characteristic of dictatorship.
  - HatchedLake721 9y ago
    Just like issuing executive orders, right?
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      You're confusing actions taken by the executive branch with actions taken by the legislative branch. For a dictator like Lukashenko there is no difference. In democratic states they are quire different.
      - ogurechny 9y ago
        It amazes me that people still want to exclaim “Democracy!” in the same manner others (ab-)used “Communism!” when Agamben's very comprehensible works are easily available.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      If you're referring to EO's issued by the President of the United States, you should be aware that EO's only have the force of law within two scopes of power: * power delegated to the President by statute passed by Congress * powers explicitly and exclusively delegated to the President by the Constitution (of which there are few) It's a misconception that the President can issue an "executive order" that overrules Congress. Such an order would have no force, and would fail in front of a federal court --- you saw this with the original Trump Muslim Ban.

lowry 9y ago

Just FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka. They share quite a few traits.

vim_wannabe 9y ago
I knew this was somehow his fault. Thanks, trump. Looks like their crypto currency plans are going to be similar too...
docdeek 9y ago
I imagine all leaders share some traits no matter how good, evil, or truly monstrous they are. The reality is, however, that Americans can vote their leader out of office in a couple of years while in Belarus they just cannot.
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  Of course they can. They just chose to re-elect him. Belarus is a democratic republic with proper election system.
  - kbart 9y ago
    It's not hard to choose when there's only 1 real candidate. USSR had elections too.
    - vbezhenar 9y ago
      There were 4 candidates on the last elections. More than in US, AFAIK.
      - kingofhdds 9y ago
        Like it means something, there was just one controlling counting of votes. Sorry, even his fans here in Belarus don't take 'elections' seriously.
      - pound 9y ago
        Every election in Belarus in the last couple of decades is a circus. Lukashenko rules for 23 years now having complete control over elections.
      - varjag 9y ago
        The US had scores of candidates, if you think it's any useful metric. http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm There are effectively no elections held in Belarus since 1994. Any true contenders are crushed and imprisoned, and the votes aren't counted either way.
      - d__k 9y ago
        It is not about the number of candidates and freedom of choice. A true democracy needs its own Guantanamo (US) and citizens of 1st and 2nd classes (Estonia, Latvia). And the most important factor is who is your friend because these friends will eventually decide who you are. There were many classical dictatorships which were treated as democracies and vice versa.
zerr 9y ago
At least Americans can vote against Trump on the next elections.
kingofhdds 9y ago
<<ust FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka.>> Not true. I'm Belarusian, and it's the first time I'm seeing this. I cannot say for every compatriot, of course, but "Belarusians often refer" implies something well-known, and it's not the case here. Truth be told, thoughts of majority of Belarusians do not revolve around US policy.
Neku42 9y ago
Belarusian here. I would describe Donald Trump as american Yeltsin, but whatever.
- sirfz 9y ago
  That's funny, although Trump doesn't drink but this kinda makes sense

cies 9y ago

Any gov't were lobby has more power then voters is by definition not a democracy. > the laws change at the whim of the rulers. There are not too many (probably non at all) places were law changes are voted on by the general public directly. I really do not think that calling some place "undemocratic" helps. What is more interesting to me is to what extend a place rulers/rules promote or counter oppression.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> I really do not think that calling some place "undemocratic" helps Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Commerce doesn't care about "what extend [sic]...rulers/rules promote or counter oppression." It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will last, the odds of your employees being jailed for falling out of political favor, whether favorable rules (such as this one) could be re-written, again on someone's whim, et cetera. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-political-science/article/div-classtitledemocracy-political-stability-and-economic-growthdiv/1630FBD0E7690CAF595EE9C612E405AE https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-p...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- lowry 9y ago
  Thanks for the link, but you should have given the one to directly download the article: https://sci-hub.la/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0007123497000197 https://sci-hub.la/https://doi.org/10.1017/S0007123497000197
- cies 9y ago
  > Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Good for the economies. But some great economies happen in non-democratic places. It tells me nothing. I'm more concerned with fighting oppression than promoting the growth of "healthier economy" (what ever that may mean). > It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will last Investment of worker's means (like his house): sure. Investment of a billionaires fortune: I do not give a shit, it's not in my interest to protect that kind of investment. For the record: I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. > the odds of your employees being jailed for falling out of political favor Now THAT'S oppression right there! I really hate that to happen, not because some company owner has to find a new employee, but because a person and their social environment is ripped to pieces. > whether favorable rules (such as this one) could be re-written, again on someone's whim Rules favourable to what? Billionaires? Or the common people? Ask yourself: can you really define the word "economy" unambiguously? Or are you chasing a spook?

ceasarby 9y ago

This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest. Belarus as law-abiding member of Interpol just complied with rules, he was extradited to the country that made request, afaik. I wouldn't trust the guy who broke the law on purpose. What he did is entered the territory using a fake passport, after he was specifically told by the government the he can't do this. And he did it not for any valid reason, but just to create hype in his blog. Pretty idiotic thing to do. Anyway situation with this blogger is totally irrelevant to the Decree of Digital Economy that was signed today.

throwawaymanbot 9y ago
By its founding principals, Interpol honors requests from places that it really shouldnt. So The fact that someone can trigger something like that, does not mean someones guilty of anything other than getting on the nerves of a dictator. (Check out Russia and Bill Browder for example, Russia uses interpol to hassle him)
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest I am having trouble finding an independent source for this claim.
- ceasarby 9y ago
  https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus. Российско-израильский блогер Александр Лапшин был задержан в Минске 14 декабря 2016 года по запросу Азербайджана, который объявил его в международный розыск за незаконное посещение Нагорного Карабаха. The Russian-Israeli blogger Alexander Lapshin was detained in Minsk on December 14, 2016 at the request of Azerbaijan, who declared him on the international wanted list for illegally visiting Nagorno-Karabakh. Лукашенко заявил, а Шуневич подтвердил, что Лапшин был задержан в Минске не по инициативе Азербайджана, а потому, что находился в розыске по линии Интерпола. "Мы согласно решению Интерпола его задержали. И согласно всем законам и порядку мы должны его передать Азербайджану. Lukashenko said, and Shunevich (Minister of Internal Affairs) confirmed that Lapshin was detained in Minsk not on the initiative of Azerbaijan, but because he was wanted by the Interpol line. "We, according to the decision of Interpol, detained him and, according to all laws and order, we must transfer it to Azerbaijan. Belarus had no interest in this guy and his destiny. He has 3 citizenship (Russia, Israel and Ukraine (denounced)) and got himself in the middle of Azerbaijan-Armenian conflict. All this countries, except for Ukraine wanted Belarus to do something different, release him, transfer him, etc. Belarus just did what international law says and washed the hands off. Right after he was transferred to Azerbaijan he apologized for wrong-doing and was released by the president of Azerbaijan and sent home to Israel.

Fiahil 9y ago

> Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy Democracies are overrated. It's not the "silver-bullet-regime", and has it's own set of flaws compared to others. Why is everyone thinking that living in a democracy makes de-facto your life better ?

nxsynonym 9y ago
Nobody said it living in a democracy makes your life better, the comment only mentioned it because it means that laws are not iron-clad and can change on a dime - which means the news that offering full bitcoin regulation could easily change tomorrow.

fpoling 9y ago

The thing about Belarus is not that laws change at whim. They are not. According a lawyer I know from Belarus in courts small and not so small cases are considered rather fairly. One in principle can count that in a daily life rule of laws applies and the level of corruption is not that bad. But the moment your case is perceived by authorities as political or somebody with power finds your business interesting, one gets BIG troubles. Now, by playing by the rules one can protect somewhat from the "business" interests, so the situation is better than, for example, in Russia. But political part is very unpredictable and it is impossible to know which action can cross the line.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> The thing about Belarus is not that laws change at whim. They are not. Lukashenko is a dictator. Being able to change laws at a whim is a defining characteristic of dictatorship.
- HatchedLake721 9y ago
  Just like issuing executive orders, right?
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    You're confusing actions taken by the executive branch with actions taken by the legislative branch. For a dictator like Lukashenko there is no difference. In democratic states they are quire different.
    - ogurechny 9y ago
      It amazes me that people still want to exclaim “Democracy!” in the same manner others (ab-)used “Communism!” when Agamben's very comprehensible works are easily available.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    If you're referring to EO's issued by the President of the United States, you should be aware that EO's only have the force of law within two scopes of power: * power delegated to the President by statute passed by Congress * powers explicitly and exclusively delegated to the President by the Constitution (of which there are few) It's a misconception that the President can issue an "executive order" that overrules Congress. Such an order would have no force, and would fail in front of a federal court --- you saw this with the original Trump Muslim Ban.