4 ms·

The shorting started. Let's see if there's anyone willing to protect BTC and at which level.

by paulus_magnus2 9y ago

bsaul 9y ago
Let's also see how fast something with 0 utility value can fall when the hype stops.
- romeo88 9y ago
  I wouldn't say 0 utility but for sure not anywhere near it is now. Tulips still have "utility" today but a single one does not buy you a house anymore ;)
  - egeozcan 9y ago
    I think a "single" bitcoin doesn't mean anything, especially compared to a physical good (it makes some sense when you are making a performance comparison to other CCs but not too much). You can buy a house with enough bitcoins as long as you have buyers. You can say the same thing for tulips as well.
- mrwong 9y ago
  Ok im done with HN... its like the elders home of SV. "those damn kind with those stooopeed comyuters.... we had real rice boards back in ww1 that was a nice time.. interwebs hazh no walluey anywaysh We can argue about the correct price of bitcoin sure, but that it has 0 utility in a world full of athoritarian goverments, its like saying hideouts for jew in Nazi germany had 0 utility. Fucking ridicolous and stupid, dont want to even sugarcoat that level of stupidity. Sugercoating you stupid asses here on HN leads exactly to this Political correctness that got Trump into power. So fkc off, go suck Trumps Dck if you love his money so much.
philfrasty 9y ago
Why would you even consider shorting BTC in the last few days? There was no negative news at all. Might look smart in hindsight but complete speculation IMO for this short timeframe.
- pavlov 9y ago
  On an asset with no fundamental value, shorting is appealing because it can create the negative news cycle. Short enough and you get headlines like the one in the OP: "Bitcoin plunges by X%". Suddenly you'll have longs looking to sell and more shorts hoping to get in.
- prettygood 9y ago
  No negative news? One of the co-founders of bitcoin.com sold everything because he doesn't believe in it anymore http://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-co-founders-of-bitcoincom-has-sold-all-of-his-bitcoin-2017-12?r=UK&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-co-founders-of-bit...
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    Bitcoin.com is unrelated to the Bitcoin Core project at Bitcoin.org.
    - prettygood 9y ago
      True, but that doesn't matter to people who don't know aything about it. They just read "Bitcoin guy sells everything". It's not like the media is going to properly explain it in the article, or tried writing a less click-baity title.
- bsaul 9y ago
  Told a friend that was very much into bitcoin to sell everything two days ago. But my logic is the following : if an asset is overvalued because of hype, then the moment everybody knows about the existence of the asset is when the value reaches its peak. With the recent news about bitcoin reaching 20k and everybody in the general public wondering about investing, i thought we reached that moment.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
That's the problem I think with the futures market; because BTC is / can be anonymized, there can be big mules that short BTC, then sell off their BTC. Because the BTC trade is susceptible for panic, other people will start panic selling, further lowering the price. And the bigger mules that shorted BTC earn money both from selling their assets at a high price and the shorting.
hollander 9y ago
This seems like the regular pattern. It goes up for a while, then you see a drop back of about 30% of the rise. Then after a short while it picks up again and in not time it has recovered from the drop, to gain more value. Then repeat. I have invested a small amount in bitcoins, and just wait until it hits $100k. If I lose all, bad luck. The amount invested is worth the risk.
- BattyMilk 9y ago
  I'm in the same as you. I've been dumping a few hundred a month into BTC, ETC and LTC for a few months and at the time of writing (BTC is currently hovering around 14k) my investment is worth 3x what I've put in. While I'd love to see crypto disrupt the current financial system, it's just fun to be a part of the ride. I see this as play money. It's fun to track the price up and down. It will have to do a repeat of the 2012-today run up for me to make huge money - something I'm not expecting - and unless it does this, I'll not be cashing out. If it happens then awesome, if it crashes tomorrow then I've spent a bit of money for a bit of added excitement in my day.
  - hollander 9y ago
    > While I'd love to see crypto disrupt the current financial system Late reply. I don't agree. I think a disruption of the financial system will create only trouble. Taking back control from the banks is something else, and stopping split second speculation by algorithms would result in more stability. If you mean that by disruption, I agree of course, but for me this is not a disruption, as it fits in the current system.
- emerged 9y ago
  This is accurate and you can easily see it through a cursory look at the full history of coin value. These articles have always served as a Buy signal. Whether or not one believes this time will be different is another question.

The shorting started. Let's see if there's anyone willing to protect BTC and at which level.

bsaul 9y ago

Let's also see how fast something with 0 utility value can fall when the hype stops.

romeo88 9y ago
I wouldn't say 0 utility but for sure not anywhere near it is now. Tulips still have "utility" today but a single one does not buy you a house anymore ;)
- egeozcan 9y ago
  I think a "single" bitcoin doesn't mean anything, especially compared to a physical good (it makes some sense when you are making a performance comparison to other CCs but not too much). You can buy a house with enough bitcoins as long as you have buyers. You can say the same thing for tulips as well.
mrwong 9y ago
Ok im done with HN... its like the elders home of SV. "those damn kind with those stooopeed comyuters.... we had real rice boards back in ww1 that was a nice time.. interwebs hazh no walluey anywaysh We can argue about the correct price of bitcoin sure, but that it has 0 utility in a world full of athoritarian goverments, its like saying hideouts for jew in Nazi germany had 0 utility. Fucking ridicolous and stupid, dont want to even sugarcoat that level of stupidity. Sugercoating you stupid asses here on HN leads exactly to this Political correctness that got Trump into power. So fkc off, go suck Trumps Dck if you love his money so much.

philfrasty 9y ago

Why would you even consider shorting BTC in the last few days? There was no negative news at all. Might look smart in hindsight but complete speculation IMO for this short timeframe.

pavlov 9y ago
On an asset with no fundamental value, shorting is appealing because it can create the negative news cycle. Short enough and you get headlines like the one in the OP: "Bitcoin plunges by X%". Suddenly you'll have longs looking to sell and more shorts hoping to get in.
prettygood 9y ago
No negative news? One of the co-founders of bitcoin.com sold everything because he doesn't believe in it anymore http://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-co-founders-of-bitcoincom-has-sold-all-of-his-bitcoin-2017-12?r=UK&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.com/one-of-the-co-founders-of-bit...
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  Bitcoin.com is unrelated to the Bitcoin Core project at Bitcoin.org.
  - prettygood 9y ago
    True, but that doesn't matter to people who don't know aything about it. They just read "Bitcoin guy sells everything". It's not like the media is going to properly explain it in the article, or tried writing a less click-baity title.
bsaul 9y ago
Told a friend that was very much into bitcoin to sell everything two days ago. But my logic is the following : if an asset is overvalued because of hype, then the moment everybody knows about the existence of the asset is when the value reaches its peak. With the recent news about bitcoin reaching 20k and everybody in the general public wondering about investing, i thought we reached that moment.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

That's the problem I think with the futures market; because BTC is / can be anonymized, there can be big mules that short BTC, then sell off their BTC. Because the BTC trade is susceptible for panic, other people will start panic selling, further lowering the price. And the bigger mules that shorted BTC earn money both from selling their assets at a high price and the shorting.

hollander 9y ago

This seems like the regular pattern. It goes up for a while, then you see a drop back of about 30% of the rise. Then after a short while it picks up again and in not time it has recovered from the drop, to gain more value. Then repeat. I have invested a small amount in bitcoins, and just wait until it hits $100k. If I lose all, bad luck. The amount invested is worth the risk.

BattyMilk 9y ago
I'm in the same as you. I've been dumping a few hundred a month into BTC, ETC and LTC for a few months and at the time of writing (BTC is currently hovering around 14k) my investment is worth 3x what I've put in. While I'd love to see crypto disrupt the current financial system, it's just fun to be a part of the ride. I see this as play money. It's fun to track the price up and down. It will have to do a repeat of the 2012-today run up for me to make huge money - something I'm not expecting - and unless it does this, I'll not be cashing out. If it happens then awesome, if it crashes tomorrow then I've spent a bit of money for a bit of added excitement in my day.
- hollander 9y ago
  > While I'd love to see crypto disrupt the current financial system Late reply. I don't agree. I think a disruption of the financial system will create only trouble. Taking back control from the banks is something else, and stopping split second speculation by algorithms would result in more stability. If you mean that by disruption, I agree of course, but for me this is not a disruption, as it fits in the current system.
emerged 9y ago
This is accurate and you can easily see it through a cursory look at the full history of coin value. These articles have always served as a Buy signal. Whether or not one believes this time will be different is another question.