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I'm not sure how much bay area real estate shortages drive this; I suspect little. 1. It's unclear how much additional housing will drop prices. There's enormo

I'm not sure how much bay area real estate shortages drive this; I suspect little. 1. It's unclear how much additional housing will drop prices. There's enormous demand and denser housing costs more to build per square foot. Realistically, we're talking 10 to 20% drops as upper bounds of cuts (think Seattle costs) 2. [Edited to clarify price driving] These companies have decided to be in the bay area for some reason (mainly talent pool?) At that point, you are competing with very high paying companies. (Top prices for senior eng being set by companies like Google which pay $300k TCO; Series B stage startups need to do $170k+ cash to be competitive.. while not everyone can command these jobs, land costs are being set by them) 3. Sure, there might be some people excited enough to take a pay cut. But I suspect a lot of the problem is how poor the expected outcome is for first employees. Companies still seem unwilling to give out equity levels that justify pay cuts (i.e >10%)

isuckatcoding 9y ago
Thing is though it’s not that easy to get a big4 job. It takes several weeks or even months to land those competitive roles whereas startups are much easier. Not all of us have the talent to land that big4.
- ves 9y ago
  “Good” startups are definitely much harder to recruit for than big4 — there’s a lot of variance in startup engineering quality.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Most good startups have interviews as hard, if not harder, than the big 4.
perfmode 9y ago
Consider how much of the pay of well-paid big Corp talent goes to real estate rentiers in the Bay Area. 30% of base? That’s almost greater than the US gov’t’s cut.
- usaar333 9y ago
  > 30% of base? From various data points I have, average is around ~33% post-tax, 22% pre-tax of base. > Consider how much of the pay of well-paid big Corp talent goes to real estate rentiers in the Bay Area. For sure, it's a lot - but when all these high payed folks have such high value of time, housing in areas near work/fun places are going to be bid up.
  - perfmode 9y ago
    treating the problem as an inevitability is taking the easy way out.
TuringNYC 9y ago
>> you are competing with very high paying companies True. But for people looking to do something meaningful, which they may find spot-on in a startup, you are competing with cost of living on the downside, not just alternate employers on the upside.
- usaar333 9y ago
  Agreed that cost of living is a factor. However, one upside of being in SF for employees is that there are so many start-ups that it is relatively easy to find one that is both meaningful + pays decently

isuckatcoding 9y ago

Thing is though it’s not that easy to get a big4 job. It takes several weeks or even months to land those competitive roles whereas startups are much easier. Not all of us have the talent to land that big4.

ves 9y ago
“Good” startups are definitely much harder to recruit for than big4 — there’s a lot of variance in startup engineering quality.
user5994461 9y ago
Most good startups have interviews as hard, if not harder, than the big 4.

perfmode 9y ago

Consider how much of the pay of well-paid big Corp talent goes to real estate rentiers in the Bay Area. 30% of base? That’s almost greater than the US gov’t’s cut.

usaar333 9y ago
> 30% of base? From various data points I have, average is around ~33% post-tax, 22% pre-tax of base. > Consider how much of the pay of well-paid big Corp talent goes to real estate rentiers in the Bay Area. For sure, it's a lot - but when all these high payed folks have such high value of time, housing in areas near work/fun places are going to be bid up.
- perfmode 9y ago
  treating the problem as an inevitability is taking the easy way out.

TuringNYC 9y ago

>> you are competing with very high paying companies True. But for people looking to do something meaningful, which they may find spot-on in a startup, you are competing with cost of living on the downside, not just alternate employers on the upside.

usaar333 9y ago
Agreed that cost of living is a factor. However, one upside of being in SF for employees is that there are so many start-ups that it is relatively easy to find one that is both meaningful + pays decently