4 ms·

>developers grouse about the other browser makers who are “holding the web back.” Oh get off my lawn! Anyone to complains about Chrome vs. FF Quantum vs MS Edg

>developers grouse about the other browser makers who are “holding the web back.” Oh get off my lawn! Anyone to complains about Chrome vs. FF Quantum vs MS Edge doesn't know or remember the dark of days of IE 5 and IE 6. The lowest common denominator these days is exponentially better than it has ever been. Slight tangent, but I was happy to see the other day the Google hangouts works on Firefox again (I don't know if that is coincidence or related to the Quantum release or if Google finally decided to support WebRTC).

gaius 9y ago
doesn't know or remember the dark of days of IE 5 and IE 6. I remember that when IE6 was first released it was the fastest, most reliable, most standards compliant and feature rich browser. That's why it took over the corporate world. It was the Chrome of its day, if you will. How did that work out?
- mattmanser 9y ago
  There was an incentive for MS to hold the web back, which isn't there now, although there's an incentive for Google to wall it up.
- blacklight 9y ago
  They released a good product, but weren't prepared to keep it up-to-date with the expectations that a de-facto industry standard should be able to handle. The web kept on moving after IE6 was released - XHR, jQuery, and later on HTML5 and CSS3. Being a browser entirely developed and maintained by a private corporation subject to the shareholders priorities more than the Acid3 test results, Microsoft decided to ignore the calls to adhere to the new standards for as long as it could, and started developing its own internal awful standards to patch the lack of adherence to the W3C standards (ActiveX, VBScript, Silverlight...). When Microsoft realized that a privately held company alone couldn't win a fight on your-own-propretary-standards Vs. what the rest of the world wants, it was too late. IE had become an unmaintainable patched monolith that had seen its market share drop from 90% to 20%, losing to the new rivals. They had to basically trash the old code and start from scratch with Edge to still be vaguely competitive. Microsoft's story taught us that you can't push for your own standards while ignoring what the community wants and expect to survive for a long time. Google seems to have learned that lesson over these years (that's why Chrome still dominates the market), but if they start favoring their internal corporate priorities over the most pristine standard adherence, they might drift into the Microsoft case ad well.
  - userbinator 9y ago
    For the record, the concept of XHR/AJAX originated at Microsoft, although it was not originally called that, and was first implemented in IE5. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/XMLHttpRequest/Using_XMLHttpRequest_in_IE6 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/XMLHttpRequ... Ditto for DOM Storage --- before the W3C, IE5 had userData.
- jhbadger 9y ago
  The main issue with IE6 was that it was Windows only, making life miserable for those not using Windows. Chrome is on Linux and OSX as well. So there isn't really the "I can't access this site because I don't use Windows" problem that was a real problem then. Even if your favorite browser is Firefox, Edge, or Safari, you can still have Chrome on your system for Chrome-only sites.
  - Arkanosis 9y ago
    … so the main issue is that Chrome is Chrome only so "I can't access this site because I don't use Chrome". Maybe a bit better than being Windows only, but not that much, in my opinion. I don't want Chrome on my system.
  - laumars 9y ago
    I was with you right up until the last sentence. However there are a few - though admittedly niche - platforms that Firefox has been ported to but which Chromium has not.
- sodosopa 9y ago
  > I remember that when IE6 was first released it was the fastest, most reliable, most standards compliant and feature rich browser. That's why it took over the corporate world. Most companies run Windows by default, that's why IE took over the corporate world.
  - gaius 9y ago
    Most companies run Windows by default, that's why IE took over the corporate world. Netscape's plan was to so totally abstract the underlying OS that it didn't matter what it was.

gaius 9y ago

doesn't know or remember the dark of days of IE 5 and IE 6. I remember that when IE6 was first released it was the fastest, most reliable, most standards compliant and feature rich browser. That's why it took over the corporate world. It was the Chrome of its day, if you will. How did that work out?

mattmanser 9y ago
There was an incentive for MS to hold the web back, which isn't there now, although there's an incentive for Google to wall it up.
blacklight 9y ago
They released a good product, but weren't prepared to keep it up-to-date with the expectations that a de-facto industry standard should be able to handle. The web kept on moving after IE6 was released - XHR, jQuery, and later on HTML5 and CSS3. Being a browser entirely developed and maintained by a private corporation subject to the shareholders priorities more than the Acid3 test results, Microsoft decided to ignore the calls to adhere to the new standards for as long as it could, and started developing its own internal awful standards to patch the lack of adherence to the W3C standards (ActiveX, VBScript, Silverlight...). When Microsoft realized that a privately held company alone couldn't win a fight on your-own-propretary-standards Vs. what the rest of the world wants, it was too late. IE had become an unmaintainable patched monolith that had seen its market share drop from 90% to 20%, losing to the new rivals. They had to basically trash the old code and start from scratch with Edge to still be vaguely competitive. Microsoft's story taught us that you can't push for your own standards while ignoring what the community wants and expect to survive for a long time. Google seems to have learned that lesson over these years (that's why Chrome still dominates the market), but if they start favoring their internal corporate priorities over the most pristine standard adherence, they might drift into the Microsoft case ad well.
- userbinator 9y ago
  For the record, the concept of XHR/AJAX originated at Microsoft, although it was not originally called that, and was first implemented in IE5. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/XMLHttpRequest/Using_XMLHttpRequest_in_IE6 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/XMLHttpRequ... Ditto for DOM Storage --- before the W3C, IE5 had userData.
jhbadger 9y ago
The main issue with IE6 was that it was Windows only, making life miserable for those not using Windows. Chrome is on Linux and OSX as well. So there isn't really the "I can't access this site because I don't use Windows" problem that was a real problem then. Even if your favorite browser is Firefox, Edge, or Safari, you can still have Chrome on your system for Chrome-only sites.
- Arkanosis 9y ago
  … so the main issue is that Chrome is Chrome only so "I can't access this site because I don't use Chrome". Maybe a bit better than being Windows only, but not that much, in my opinion. I don't want Chrome on my system.
- laumars 9y ago
  I was with you right up until the last sentence. However there are a few - though admittedly niche - platforms that Firefox has been ported to but which Chromium has not.
sodosopa 9y ago
> I remember that when IE6 was first released it was the fastest, most reliable, most standards compliant and feature rich browser. That's why it took over the corporate world. Most companies run Windows by default, that's why IE took over the corporate world.
- gaius 9y ago
  Most companies run Windows by default, that's why IE took over the corporate world. Netscape's plan was to so totally abstract the underlying OS that it didn't matter what it was.