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> They were able to fit more battery using a custom form factor that would have been super expensive to make removable. No one had done this as well before, bec

by ksk 9y ago

> They were able to fit more battery using a custom form factor that would have been super expensive to make removable. No one had done this as well before, because Apple was the first to implement good embedded battery conditioning software so they would last a couple years without needing replacement. Why speculate on a tech forum, when these things are easy to find out? Just look at the battery specs for both machines. https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ is ~ 55 Watt/hr A few random dells I looked up http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13/spd/xps-13-9360-laptop/dncwtr744h http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13/spd/xps-1... 60Watt/hr http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-13/spd/alienware-13-laptop/dkcwkble1s http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-13/spd... 76Watt/hr Clearly, it seems to be the opposite. After using all kinds of laptops, the main benefits of Apple laptops AFAICT is that they don't come with pre-installed bullshit, they're easier to test because they only come in like 5 varieties, as opposed to the hundreds of thousands combinations that Windows has to deal with, and that OSX can be easier to use, for some users. I would recommend apple to any non-technical user for sure. I personally have never found apple hardware to be any different than other brands. I'm still using my Sony laptop from 2011 and its just as fast and rock-solid as the day I purchased it. As an aside, Microsoft doesn't usually cripple their popular software (Office, Visual studio, etc) so that it requires the latest OS, unlike Apple which forces you on the upgrade treadmill - sure, its free, but you also don't have a choice. YMMV ofcource.

valuearb 9y ago
So your rebuttal attempt to undercut my description of laptop market technology 8 years ago is linking to a couple present day laptops? OK, I’ll play. How thick are those laptops? How heavy are those laptops? How does their battery life compare? And review this so you have some basic technical knowledge and understanding of history. https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro-battery-life-to-die-for https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro... https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro-battery-life-to-die-for/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro...
- ksk 9y ago
  >So your rebuttal attempt to undercut my description of laptop market technology 8 years ago is linking to a couple present day laptops? No, your claim was that making batteries non serviceable means you have more room for a larger battery. It doesn't seem to be the case now. You are welcome to point to an example from the year that you purchased your laptop.
  - lloeki 9y ago
    A cursory search hints me that the XPS 13 battery is not removable, and, according to some reviews, downright soldered, while the Alienware one is a literal brick. To me that makes the case, even today. I don't care about popping a lid off every three years; swappable batteries, to me, is nonsense. What makes me irate though is a) the fact that they're downright glued when they could be held in place by other, readily serviceable means†, and b) in 2013-2015 I could code/compile stuff and still have a sizable portion of the best-case battery life, while today the battery size is dwindling, compensated by enhanced power management to maintain the "10 hour" figure, but it falls apart under any load that does not involve browsing or watching some hardware-decoded video. We should be shooting for 20, 30, 40 hours of use on battery, not the current "good enough" status quo. † Clips, double sided tape, whatever. If it's a problem to not use glue then it's a worthy engineering challenge to use some goo that comes off easily. The current glue situation is a lazy copout, it's Steve Jobs's "plywood on the back".
    - ksk 9y ago
      I suppose it depends on the year too. Here's a video I found for the XPS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreTaNMswRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreTaNMswRA Agree with the rest of your comment.
systoll 9y ago
Neither of those laptops have easily swappable batteries. [the XPSs is easier than MBP & Alienware, but you’re still disassembling things] 7 years later, Dell seems to have captured the same gains. At present, Apple’s main battery life win is macOS.
- ksk 9y ago
  >Neither of those laptops have easily swappable batteries. But any repair shop could do that for you. You're not forced to go to a single vendor who can set arbitrary prices. >At present, Apple’s main battery life win is macOS. Yes, I would agree with that. I was speaking more to the anti-repair/replace design from Apple (also others).
  - systoll 9y ago
    Apple will only provide service under warranty themselves, and issues caused by third party repairs aren’t under warranty. Same as Dell. If you’re not in warranty, they don’t do anything to force you to go to them. The only difference is that going to Apple is easy, due to their retail stores.

by ksk 9y ago

valuearb 9y ago

So your rebuttal attempt to undercut my description of laptop market technology 8 years ago is linking to a couple present day laptops? OK, I’ll play. How thick are those laptops? How heavy are those laptops? How does their battery life compare? And review this so you have some basic technical knowledge and understanding of history. https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro-battery-life-to-die-for https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro... https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro-battery-life-to-die-for/4 https://www.anandtech.com/show/2783/apple-s-2009-macbook-pro...

ksk 9y ago
>So your rebuttal attempt to undercut my description of laptop market technology 8 years ago is linking to a couple present day laptops? No, your claim was that making batteries non serviceable means you have more room for a larger battery. It doesn't seem to be the case now. You are welcome to point to an example from the year that you purchased your laptop.
- lloeki 9y ago
  A cursory search hints me that the XPS 13 battery is not removable, and, according to some reviews, downright soldered, while the Alienware one is a literal brick. To me that makes the case, even today. I don't care about popping a lid off every three years; swappable batteries, to me, is nonsense. What makes me irate though is a) the fact that they're downright glued when they could be held in place by other, readily serviceable means†, and b) in 2013-2015 I could code/compile stuff and still have a sizable portion of the best-case battery life, while today the battery size is dwindling, compensated by enhanced power management to maintain the "10 hour" figure, but it falls apart under any load that does not involve browsing or watching some hardware-decoded video. We should be shooting for 20, 30, 40 hours of use on battery, not the current "good enough" status quo. † Clips, double sided tape, whatever. If it's a problem to not use glue then it's a worthy engineering challenge to use some goo that comes off easily. The current glue situation is a lazy copout, it's Steve Jobs's "plywood on the back".
  - ksk 9y ago
    I suppose it depends on the year too. Here's a video I found for the XPS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreTaNMswRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kreTaNMswRA Agree with the rest of your comment.

systoll 9y ago

Neither of those laptops have easily swappable batteries. [the XPSs is easier than MBP & Alienware, but you’re still disassembling things] 7 years later, Dell seems to have captured the same gains. At present, Apple’s main battery life win is macOS.

ksk 9y ago
>Neither of those laptops have easily swappable batteries. But any repair shop could do that for you. You're not forced to go to a single vendor who can set arbitrary prices. >At present, Apple’s main battery life win is macOS. Yes, I would agree with that. I was speaking more to the anti-repair/replace design from Apple (also others).
- systoll 9y ago
  Apple will only provide service under warranty themselves, and issues caused by third party repairs aren’t under warranty. Same as Dell. If you’re not in warranty, they don’t do anything to force you to go to them. The only difference is that going to Apple is easy, due to their retail stores.