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I hate the fact that US citizens are increasingly treated as enemy combatants. I have a citizenship for a reason. You know who I am. I shouldn't not be subject

I hate the fact that US citizens are increasingly treated as enemy combatants. I have a citizenship for a reason. You know who I am. I shouldn't not be subjected to unreasonable search, I should be treated to an express lane where they can simply scan my ID, see I am not a threat and let me go on my way.

ahakki 9y ago
I have a suspicion that the TSAs unreasonable behaviour (unreasonable adherance to protocol) is due to them being subject to random performance tests where they actually do send through enlderly women in wheelchairs with contraband straped to their butt and automatically flag them for extra search. Failing to detect the contraband in this case is probably punished in some way so the agents are forced to throw all common sense out the window when handling people[0] that have been flagged for additional screening. [0] People like me. I get flagged every single time I enter the United States.
- madamelic 9y ago
  Sorry everyone. Explaining this person's comment, this comment was on-topic but I deleted a huge personal story about going through security and seeing an elderly woman in a wheelchair getting flagged. My post got downvoted since the story was a bit rambly so I removed it. :)
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- tnorthcutt 9y ago
  They do conduct undercover tests, and the TSA consistently fails them: http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-o...
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    Indeed things like guns go unnoticed in these tests but at least Americans are safe from the hazards regular sized containers of shampoo and toothpaste.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Is it worth the human cost? Anecdotally, my octagenarian grandmother outright refuses to fly anymore. Why? Because about a year ago she had to go through a 3-hour intensive screening/interview process which involved invasive searches because she had used hair spray that morning. Ridiculous. Knowing her, if she hadn't had a relative with her, she probably would have wound up in the hospital. And that's justified because the agency is afraid of failure? No, they have already failed beyond redemption IMO.
  - nitwit005 9y ago
    Probably not. There's about 900 million passengers a year in the US (https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/press_releases/bts018_16 https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/press_releases/bts018_16), so if you assume a 15 minute wait, you can estimate number of lifetimes lost in line: ((((900,000,000 * 15) / 60) / 24) / 365.25) / 78.74 = 325.98. Not to say we should have no security, but I suspect we're past the point of doing more harm than good.
- geezer 9y ago
  > agents are forced to throw all common sense out the window when handling people It is not common sense but totally sensical. A grandma could have been threatened to strap it on her butt or her relative/friend gets it in the head.
pjc50 9y ago
Internal US propaganda channels have been working up the hatred against internal threats, too.
beedogs 9y ago
Leaving the United States is the best decision I ever made. And watching what's transpired in the (almost) ten years since I left makes me despair for the folks I still know there.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Where did you go that you enjoy so much? Not challenging, asking sincerely.
- mulmen 9y ago
  I'm glad you are happy but please also forgive me for saying this is a very un-American attitude. This country is not perfect but we won't fix the problems by running away from them. I don't need your despair.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    It's quite possible that beeddogs is Ukranian. Or Indian. Or Laotian. Or any number of other nationalities that I've worked with over the years. And their response might be, "if that's what an 'American attitude' means, I'm going back home." And that's just one of the many more charitable hypotheses I came up with.
    - mulmen 9y ago
      I don't see a problem with the attitude that the country can be changed by its citizens.
      - erric 9y ago
        I don’t think there is anything wrong with this thought, however the amount and kind of work needed to change the current situation is revolutionary.
    - Torgo 9y ago
      It's perfectly logical they might say that. They'd probably go somewhere else if there was more money there. You met them in a working environment because they're here primarily for money.
hrasyid 9y ago
Just a random thought: what does citizenship have to do with it? Why is it not okay to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, but okay to discriminate based on citizenship, which for most cases is what you're stuck with at birth and hard to change?
- perfmode 9y ago
  This is a blind spot I believe we will one day recognize as regressive. That said, part of being a citizen is having trustworthy documentation on record. The trust conferred by this information ought to be granted regardless of the traits you’ve identified.
- ASalazarMX 9y ago
  Good point. When the NSA started going crazy and spied everyone, it was the first time I saw the "It's not OK to spy on USA citizens, but it's OK for foreign citizens" reasoning. I don't know if it was used as openly before.

ahakki 9y ago

I have a suspicion that the TSAs unreasonable behaviour (unreasonable adherance to protocol) is due to them being subject to random performance tests where they actually do send through enlderly women in wheelchairs with contraband straped to their butt and automatically flag them for extra search. Failing to detect the contraband in this case is probably punished in some way so the agents are forced to throw all common sense out the window when handling people[0] that have been flagged for additional screening. [0] People like me. I get flagged every single time I enter the United States.

madamelic 9y ago
Sorry everyone. Explaining this person's comment, this comment was on-topic but I deleted a huge personal story about going through security and seeing an elderly woman in a wheelchair getting flagged. My post got downvoted since the story was a bit rambly so I removed it. :)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
tnorthcutt 9y ago
They do conduct undercover tests, and the TSA consistently fails them: http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-o...
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Indeed things like guns go unnoticed in these tests but at least Americans are safe from the hazards regular sized containers of shampoo and toothpaste.
leggomylibro 9y ago
Is it worth the human cost? Anecdotally, my octagenarian grandmother outright refuses to fly anymore. Why? Because about a year ago she had to go through a 3-hour intensive screening/interview process which involved invasive searches because she had used hair spray that morning. Ridiculous. Knowing her, if she hadn't had a relative with her, she probably would have wound up in the hospital. And that's justified because the agency is afraid of failure? No, they have already failed beyond redemption IMO.
- nitwit005 9y ago
  Probably not. There's about 900 million passengers a year in the US (https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/press_releases/bts018_16 https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/press_releases/bts018_16), so if you assume a 15 minute wait, you can estimate number of lifetimes lost in line: ((((900,000,000 * 15) / 60) / 24) / 365.25) / 78.74 = 325.98. Not to say we should have no security, but I suspect we're past the point of doing more harm than good.
geezer 9y ago
> agents are forced to throw all common sense out the window when handling people It is not common sense but totally sensical. A grandma could have been threatened to strap it on her butt or her relative/friend gets it in the head.

pjc50 9y ago

Internal US propaganda channels have been working up the hatred against internal threats, too.

beedogs 9y ago

Leaving the United States is the best decision I ever made. And watching what's transpired in the (almost) ten years since I left makes me despair for the folks I still know there.

QAPereo 9y ago
Where did you go that you enjoy so much? Not challenging, asking sincerely.
mulmen 9y ago
I'm glad you are happy but please also forgive me for saying this is a very un-American attitude. This country is not perfect but we won't fix the problems by running away from them. I don't need your despair.
- mikestew 9y ago
  It's quite possible that beeddogs is Ukranian. Or Indian. Or Laotian. Or any number of other nationalities that I've worked with over the years. And their response might be, "if that's what an 'American attitude' means, I'm going back home." And that's just one of the many more charitable hypotheses I came up with.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    I don't see a problem with the attitude that the country can be changed by its citizens.
    - erric 9y ago
      I don’t think there is anything wrong with this thought, however the amount and kind of work needed to change the current situation is revolutionary.
  - Torgo 9y ago
    It's perfectly logical they might say that. They'd probably go somewhere else if there was more money there. You met them in a working environment because they're here primarily for money.

hrasyid 9y ago

Just a random thought: what does citizenship have to do with it? Why is it not okay to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, but okay to discriminate based on citizenship, which for most cases is what you're stuck with at birth and hard to change?

perfmode 9y ago
This is a blind spot I believe we will one day recognize as regressive. That said, part of being a citizen is having trustworthy documentation on record. The trust conferred by this information ought to be granted regardless of the traits you’ve identified.
ASalazarMX 9y ago
Good point. When the NSA started going crazy and spied everyone, it was the first time I saw the "It's not OK to spy on USA citizens, but it's OK for foreign citizens" reasoning. I don't know if it was used as openly before.