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This article? https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-criminalization-of-gentrifying-neighborhoods/548837/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politic

This article? https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-criminalization-of-gentrifying-neighborhoods/548837/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/the-cri... In no way, shape or form does that "bemoan" efforts to fight _serious_ crime in changing neighborhoods. It DOES take into account the impact of gentrification on the less affluent residents. Is actually discussing that impact considered "liberal"? If you want to criticize liberalism honestly, then you probably shouldn't grossly mischaracterize your evidence.

ameister14 9y ago
Interesting. This is a tangent about that article, as I hadn't read it before, but I live in that part of Brooklyn, have for a few years. Last year on J'ouvert, 2 people were shot about two and a half blocks from my apartment building. This happened every J'ouvert until this most recent one. I'm fine with the extra police presence for that one. When I moved in, there were drug dealers on every corner, including mine. Going to work, I had to go past their pitbulls in the morning or walk in the street as they all crowded the sidewalk. That ended a few months ago. I've seen more police, and more police called for things like a drunk beating up and robbing another drunk where that used to just be let go - it's not all minor crimes, it's an attitude change as people move in that don't expect to have dangerous people and violence around them. Sure, they shouldn't necessarily call the cops on the guy barbecuing in the street at midnight, but honestly? I don't think it's a really bad thing.
- Helmet 9y ago
  >I don't think it's a really bad thing. Who in their right mind would? Uppity liberals and fringe left-wing protesters affiliated with various left-wing identitarian groups. The rest of us, rich, poor, middle-class, black, white, whatever, would prefer our neighborhoods to be safe, and not filled with gang violence and drugs. But this doesn't fit their narrative, so here we are.
  - objectivetruth 9y ago
    So, in your world, there are: * uppity liberals and fringe left-wing protestors * "the rest of us" Interesting. Lots of people on both sides of the aisle admit that there are uppity conservatives and fringe right-wing protestors, but you neglected to mention them. Do you feel that you're "in the middle" and not a conservative?
    - Helmet 9y ago
      What? I was painting broadly the social demographic of the people that push this sort of nonsense - it usually is uppity liberals and fringe radicals. People who actually care about their neighborhoods call the police when there are homicides, drug dealing, and violence occurring. > there are uppity conservatives and fringe right-wing protestors Yes, and I'm one of those uppity conservatives. I hold the fringe right-wing guys in contempt, but I don't see the relevance? If you want me to rail on them, I will gladly. >Do you feel that you're "in the middle" and not a conservative? Libertarian I guess? Grew up in a poor neighborhood much like the one described in the article, so I feel quite strongly about this sort of stuff. A larger police presence would have been a gift from God.
Helmet 9y ago
Yes, that one. I stand by my criticism, and I accuse you of the very thing that you are accusing me of. If you want me to go in depth, I will. If anything, I restrained myself in addressing that asinine article. It opens with: >"But having been marred by gang violence in recent years, this J’ouvert was markedly different, as The New York Times described. The event, which derives its name from a Creole term for “daybreak,” was heavily staffed by the New York City Police Department.....an overwhelming show of force in response to a comparatively small number of bad actors." The author conveniently omitted the specifics of that "gang violance" - an aide to Gov. Cuomo was murdered at the event a couple years ago, there have been multiple stabbings, there have been homicides the past two years, and just few days before the festival this year, multiple people were shot and killed: https://nypost.com/2017/09/04/gunfire-erupts-ahead-of-jouvert-festival/ https://nypost.com/2017/09/04/gunfire-erupts-ahead-of-jouver... Do tell me, how much violence and killing is acceptable for you before you call for, as the author put it, an "overwhelming show of force"? And guess what, that police presence did nothing but make the event safer, as per the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/nyregion/jouvert-brooklyn-parade.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/nyregion/jouvert-brooklyn... I can go on if you want, but I don't see the point. The article is an absurd framing of the situation, and completely omits the perspective of all the minorities who APPRECIATE the police presence, and who work with the police on a day-to-day basis, serving in community watch groups, and coordinating with and calling the police whenever they see problems. But no, that doesn't fit the narrative, so it's not in there.
- mistermann 9y ago
  It seems like a simplistic explanation, but I wonder if some people simply forget or overlook how multidimensional and complicated life is when discussing such matters. It is extremely common when reading political discussions, even among intelligent people, to see opinions with absolute certainty on matters they know very little about. It's easy for "smart" people to see this in (let's be honest) dumb people, but very few can see it in themselves, or others sharing their political stripes. EDIT: Wow, I didn't even criticize one side or the other, but simply pointed out a fact of human nature, and here we go with the downvotes as usual. Another excellent illustration of the "either you're with us or against us" philosophy. At least people can agree with ole George on one thing.

ameister14 9y ago

Interesting. This is a tangent about that article, as I hadn't read it before, but I live in that part of Brooklyn, have for a few years. Last year on J'ouvert, 2 people were shot about two and a half blocks from my apartment building. This happened every J'ouvert until this most recent one. I'm fine with the extra police presence for that one. When I moved in, there were drug dealers on every corner, including mine. Going to work, I had to go past their pitbulls in the morning or walk in the street as they all crowded the sidewalk. That ended a few months ago. I've seen more police, and more police called for things like a drunk beating up and robbing another drunk where that used to just be let go - it's not all minor crimes, it's an attitude change as people move in that don't expect to have dangerous people and violence around them. Sure, they shouldn't necessarily call the cops on the guy barbecuing in the street at midnight, but honestly? I don't think it's a really bad thing.

Helmet 9y ago
>I don't think it's a really bad thing. Who in their right mind would? Uppity liberals and fringe left-wing protesters affiliated with various left-wing identitarian groups. The rest of us, rich, poor, middle-class, black, white, whatever, would prefer our neighborhoods to be safe, and not filled with gang violence and drugs. But this doesn't fit their narrative, so here we are.
- objectivetruth 9y ago
  So, in your world, there are: * uppity liberals and fringe left-wing protestors * "the rest of us" Interesting. Lots of people on both sides of the aisle admit that there are uppity conservatives and fringe right-wing protestors, but you neglected to mention them. Do you feel that you're "in the middle" and not a conservative?
  - Helmet 9y ago
    What? I was painting broadly the social demographic of the people that push this sort of nonsense - it usually is uppity liberals and fringe radicals. People who actually care about their neighborhoods call the police when there are homicides, drug dealing, and violence occurring. > there are uppity conservatives and fringe right-wing protestors Yes, and I'm one of those uppity conservatives. I hold the fringe right-wing guys in contempt, but I don't see the relevance? If you want me to rail on them, I will gladly. >Do you feel that you're "in the middle" and not a conservative? Libertarian I guess? Grew up in a poor neighborhood much like the one described in the article, so I feel quite strongly about this sort of stuff. A larger police presence would have been a gift from God.

Helmet 9y ago

Yes, that one. I stand by my criticism, and I accuse you of the very thing that you are accusing me of. If you want me to go in depth, I will. If anything, I restrained myself in addressing that asinine article. It opens with: >"But having been marred by gang violence in recent years, this J’ouvert was markedly different, as The New York Times described. The event, which derives its name from a Creole term for “daybreak,” was heavily staffed by the New York City Police Department.....an overwhelming show of force in response to a comparatively small number of bad actors." The author conveniently omitted the specifics of that "gang violance" - an aide to Gov. Cuomo was murdered at the event a couple years ago, there have been multiple stabbings, there have been homicides the past two years, and just few days before the festival this year, multiple people were shot and killed: https://nypost.com/2017/09/04/gunfire-erupts-ahead-of-jouvert-festival/ https://nypost.com/2017/09/04/gunfire-erupts-ahead-of-jouver... Do tell me, how much violence and killing is acceptable for you before you call for, as the author put it, an "overwhelming show of force"? And guess what, that police presence did nothing but make the event safer, as per the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/nyregion/jouvert-brooklyn-parade.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/04/nyregion/jouvert-brooklyn... I can go on if you want, but I don't see the point. The article is an absurd framing of the situation, and completely omits the perspective of all the minorities who APPRECIATE the police presence, and who work with the police on a day-to-day basis, serving in community watch groups, and coordinating with and calling the police whenever they see problems. But no, that doesn't fit the narrative, so it's not in there.

mistermann 9y ago
It seems like a simplistic explanation, but I wonder if some people simply forget or overlook how multidimensional and complicated life is when discussing such matters. It is extremely common when reading political discussions, even among intelligent people, to see opinions with absolute certainty on matters they know very little about. It's easy for "smart" people to see this in (let's be honest) dumb people, but very few can see it in themselves, or others sharing their political stripes. EDIT: Wow, I didn't even criticize one side or the other, but simply pointed out a fact of human nature, and here we go with the downvotes as usual. Another excellent illustration of the "either you're with us or against us" philosophy. At least people can agree with ole George on one thing.