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What is your basis for "rights"? The idea that there is a right to having a gay marriage recognized as a marriage by the state is very novel. How did that novel

What is your basis for "rights"? The idea that there is a right to having a gay marriage recognized as a marriage by the state is very novel. How did that novel determination happen exactly? It can't be the will of the people because then rights are not recognized so much as commanded or agreed upon (in which case, it's possible that the will of the people can change and poof go your supposed rights). P.S. My impression is that you believe that opposition to gay marriage is bigoted, that it's not possible to have intelligent and powerful arguments against the idea.

yttrium 9y ago
Yikes my dude - a trip through your comment history shows me you're not going to be an enjoyable debate partner. The basis for 'rights' is that anyone should be able to live their life free of fear of harm and oppression. Gay marriage is just the most recent branch of an ongoing attempt to have the majority of Americans just leave gay people alone and let them live their life in peace. You seem to be under the impression that gay people exist in a vacuum where marriage is the only thing they can't do. Restrictions on marriage are just the latest in a long list of barriers that have to fall in order for gay people to have the same rights the rest of us have. My belief is that opposition to gay marriage is indicative of an objection to the idea of gay people themselves, since nobody who has any issues with gay people being gay has issues with gay marriage. It's just a thin veneer of respectability bigots put on in order to appear more civil.
- grzm 9y ago
  > "Yikes my dude - a trip through your comment history shows me you're not going to be an enjoyable debate partner." Please don't do this. If you think having a discussion with a particular individual is going to be problematic, choose not to have it, or engage as constructively without calling them out like this. You're already involved in a contentious discussion. If your goal is to actually move the needle in some meaningful way, doing this is counterproductive. Regardless of how wrong you may feel someone else is, you have an obligation to raise the bar yourself, even more so when discussing topics such as these.
- explainplease 9y ago
  > My belief is that opposition to gay marriage is indicative of an objection to the idea of gay people themselves, since nobody who has any issues with gay people being gay has issues with gay marriage. It's just a thin veneer of respectability bigots put on in order to appear more civil. So what would you say to the gay people who oppose government recognition of gay marriage? Are they bigoted against themselves?

yttrium 9y ago

Yikes my dude - a trip through your comment history shows me you're not going to be an enjoyable debate partner. The basis for 'rights' is that anyone should be able to live their life free of fear of harm and oppression. Gay marriage is just the most recent branch of an ongoing attempt to have the majority of Americans just leave gay people alone and let them live their life in peace. You seem to be under the impression that gay people exist in a vacuum where marriage is the only thing they can't do. Restrictions on marriage are just the latest in a long list of barriers that have to fall in order for gay people to have the same rights the rest of us have. My belief is that opposition to gay marriage is indicative of an objection to the idea of gay people themselves, since nobody who has any issues with gay people being gay has issues with gay marriage. It's just a thin veneer of respectability bigots put on in order to appear more civil.

grzm 9y ago
> "Yikes my dude - a trip through your comment history shows me you're not going to be an enjoyable debate partner." Please don't do this. If you think having a discussion with a particular individual is going to be problematic, choose not to have it, or engage as constructively without calling them out like this. You're already involved in a contentious discussion. If your goal is to actually move the needle in some meaningful way, doing this is counterproductive. Regardless of how wrong you may feel someone else is, you have an obligation to raise the bar yourself, even more so when discussing topics such as these.
explainplease 9y ago
> My belief is that opposition to gay marriage is indicative of an objection to the idea of gay people themselves, since nobody who has any issues with gay people being gay has issues with gay marriage. It's just a thin veneer of respectability bigots put on in order to appear more civil. So what would you say to the gay people who oppose government recognition of gay marriage? Are they bigoted against themselves?