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In 2015 I did my longest fast ever. I went 12 days without food -- just water. I felt surprisingly normal for the first 7 days. After that I felt weaker and wea

In 2015 I did my longest fast ever. I went 12 days without food -- just water. I felt surprisingly normal for the first 7 days. After that I felt weaker and weaker. The weakness very much reminded me of the experience of having the flu. By the final day it felt as if I really did have the flu, though those symptoms would come and go, and disappeared quickly after I finally had some food. The conclusion I draw from this is that some of the symptoms that we associate with viruses actually comes from the under-production of our normal enzymes. If you go 12 days without food, then your body starts to run out of the protein needed to make normal, everyday enzymes. And when a virus hijacks the machinery of your cells, and forces those cells to make virus proteins, the cells under produce the normal, everyday enzymes that are needed to live. And the symptoms of both experiences are very similar. So this aspect of a virus needs more study -- what is the result of not producing normal, everyday enzymes?

duozerk 9y ago
Out of curiosity, beyond the weakness, how painful / unpleasant was the experience ? I've read in an account collated from a hunger strike participant that starving is a bit unpleasant the first few days and then pretty much OK (which I was pretty skeptical of); albeit apparently the more overweight you are initially the more unpleasant and painful it is, at first at least. Although of course 12 days is comparatively short. I'm still curious if you have anything to comment on this description though ? I believe the source where I've read this account was here: https://books.google.fr/books?id=ipQDHj1aAe4C&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111 https://books.google.fr/books?id=ipQDHj1aAe4C&pg=PA111&lpg=P... . It's a fascinating, if a bit morbid, read. The guy stopped eating for 68 days, and ended up weighting 44kg.
- lkrubner 9y ago
  As an example, on the 11th day, I decided to go to the Verizon store and get a new iPhone, because my old iPhone was having problems. So I walked to the iPhone store. I felt very weak, and I was sweating. The experience was surprising because I'd gone for a long walk on the 7th day and I'd felt fine. But by the 11th day, on a long walk, I felt like I was walking up a steep hill, even though I was walking on flat terrain. At the Verizon store I appeared normal and I had a good conversation with the sales clerk. Then I walked towards home. I felt much weaker on the way home. I stopped to buy water at a connivence store. The sales clerk asked if I was okay. I explained that I was sick. She said I looked sick. I walked a total of 8 kilometers, which isn't much, but it felt like a serious hike. I felt very sick that night, and I fell asleep early and I slept for 12 hours. But when I woke up in the morning, I felt good. I had energy and mental focus. And then that faded away over the course of the day. Which is the other thing about a long fast -- you still have good stretches, even after 12 days, but they become increasingly rare. I think those people who go 2 weeks without food and then claim they feel great are simply taking for granted the fact that they are resting a great deal, and they expect you to take it for granted as well. Nobody goes 2 weeks without food and continues to have the same energy level, sustained over an entire day, as someone healthy who is eating normally.
  - duozerk 9y ago
    Thank you for your response. I imagine in the case of a hunger strike in prison - which the above testimony was about - the fact that you're basically not moving all day must help with the weakness (not to mention slow down the actual starving due to lack of calories burning).
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  I have read that once your body starts burning muscle tissue it gets really painful. Thank God I have not experienced this. 10 days fasting is not bad. Towards the end I felt losing strength but otherwise was fine. I would not recommend doing this in a normal workday setting though.
  - duozerk 9y ago
    Yeah, I've read that too and it seems logical; but again, the account I linked above says it isn't (which is what I found weird) - it says mostly you experience weakness but not pain, at least not after a few days.
- sgsf-s9fs9f-9 9y ago
  Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight. I felt great for most of it.
- sgsf-s9fs9f-9 9y ago
  Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight. I was active and felt great for most of it. ~
etblg 9y ago
Why did you decide to fast for 12+ days?
- lkrubner 9y ago
  Health benefits. There is a whole world of study regarding the health benefits of long fasts. It gives your immune system a chance to generate a greater variety of responses to different pathogens. Also, it might have some benefit in staving off cancer, as it has been shown to offer aid with chemotherapy. See here: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boost-chemo/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boo...
  - qbrass 9y ago
    Why 12 days though? Did you quit after seeing the downturn, or were you planning on 12 to begin with?
    - lkrubner 9y ago
      Social obligations. Which is what always ends my fasts. I had scheduled to do some traveling and meet some friends. I ate vegetarian food for the first week after the fast. It was two days till I got my strength back, and several more days before I felt 100%. I've read there is a unique kind of diabetes that comes up when you do a long fast. When we say "diabetes" we tend to think of Type II, which comes from over-eating, but I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response. And it makes sense that we wouldn't have much of an insulin response after 12 days without food. Because the purpose of insulin is to sweep excess nutrition out of our blood stream and into our cells, especially our fat cells, but if you've just gone 12 days without food, then there is no excess -- the cells are desperate for whatever nutrition they can get.
      - davnicwil 9y ago
        > I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response I am assuming you know the difference between type 1 and 2 diabetes, but for the benefit of other people reading this, please be aware that in type 1 diabetes, the body's response to insulin is irrelevant - the body (pancreas) does not produce insulin at all, and thus it is necessary to inject insulin. It is a wholly different condition from type 2 diabetes.
micro-ram 9y ago
For anyone interested, there is a video on Amazon Prime called The Science of Fasting 2016.
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  Just watched it and was really unimpressed. For a documentary titled "the science of fasting" they really went out of their way to find the least credible sources and seemed to try appeal as much as possible to consumers of alternative and holistic medicine. Secret, untranslated texts by open-minded Soviet researchers, Western science rejecting studies out of a bias against unprofitable treatments, genetic memories of starving on the savannah, body resets and cleansing...I know a lot of people who are into fasting would really like that stuff, but I was hoping to find a description of fasting that avoided those sources.
frisco 9y ago
After about a week of no carbohydrates your body would enter ketosis, which uses a parallel set of metabolic processes that burn ketones rather than carbs. The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms. After ~48 hours those disappear and everything is ok again. Do you think that could have been what you were experiencing? Your body will fall out of ketosis very quickly as soon as you have some carbs.
- mrob 9y ago
  >The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms I tried a ketogenic diet once out of curiosity (confirmed ketosis with urine testing) and I did not experience this. I have read many other anecdotes of people who also did not experience it.
  - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
    The flu like symptoms are mostly electrolyte imbalance in my experience. You lose a lot of water weight and salt.
    - mrob 9y ago
      Although I had not heard that reasoning before, I was told to increase water and salt consumption, which I did. Possibly this could have prevented any flu-like symptoms.
      - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
        When you deplete glycogen (you can store about 500 grams of it), you also lose 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen. So in total, you lose about 1.5 liters of water once you're fully glycogen depleted.
  - frisco 9y ago
    Ok. I did experience it. It would be unsurprising if there is biological variability in this. But from the parent's description if they did experience symptoms like it, it seems like ketone flu is a highly likely explanation.
asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago
People experience the same thing when they switch to ketogenic diets (dubbed the "Keto flu"). The psuedosciency way I've seen their communities describe it as "withdrawal from carbohydrates" — increasing your electrolyte intake tends to help.
Angostura 9y ago
> The conclusion I draw from this is that some of the symptoms that we associate with viruses actually comes from the under-production of our normal enzymes. The conclusion I would have drawn is that different assaults on the metabolism can create similar symptoms.
rhinoceraptor 9y ago
I don't think 12 days is nearly enough time to deplete your protein, especially if you have weight to lose. Fasting/ketosis is protein sparing in and of itself, and if you have extra weight to lose, you have extra skin surrounding that fat which can be recycled.
- mapster 9y ago
  its long enough to become potassium deficient which is not a fun trip, but it should be a trip - to the ER for an IV drip.
  - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
    Yep, a lot of people who are in to fasting will add lite salt to their water to prevent that.

duozerk 9y ago

Out of curiosity, beyond the weakness, how painful / unpleasant was the experience ? I've read in an account collated from a hunger strike participant that starving is a bit unpleasant the first few days and then pretty much OK (which I was pretty skeptical of); albeit apparently the more overweight you are initially the more unpleasant and painful it is, at first at least. Although of course 12 days is comparatively short. I'm still curious if you have anything to comment on this description though ? I believe the source where I've read this account was here: https://books.google.fr/books?id=ipQDHj1aAe4C&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111 https://books.google.fr/books?id=ipQDHj1aAe4C&pg=PA111&lpg=P... . It's a fascinating, if a bit morbid, read. The guy stopped eating for 68 days, and ended up weighting 44kg.

lkrubner 9y ago
As an example, on the 11th day, I decided to go to the Verizon store and get a new iPhone, because my old iPhone was having problems. So I walked to the iPhone store. I felt very weak, and I was sweating. The experience was surprising because I'd gone for a long walk on the 7th day and I'd felt fine. But by the 11th day, on a long walk, I felt like I was walking up a steep hill, even though I was walking on flat terrain. At the Verizon store I appeared normal and I had a good conversation with the sales clerk. Then I walked towards home. I felt much weaker on the way home. I stopped to buy water at a connivence store. The sales clerk asked if I was okay. I explained that I was sick. She said I looked sick. I walked a total of 8 kilometers, which isn't much, but it felt like a serious hike. I felt very sick that night, and I fell asleep early and I slept for 12 hours. But when I woke up in the morning, I felt good. I had energy and mental focus. And then that faded away over the course of the day. Which is the other thing about a long fast -- you still have good stretches, even after 12 days, but they become increasingly rare. I think those people who go 2 weeks without food and then claim they feel great are simply taking for granted the fact that they are resting a great deal, and they expect you to take it for granted as well. Nobody goes 2 weeks without food and continues to have the same energy level, sustained over an entire day, as someone healthy who is eating normally.
- duozerk 9y ago
  Thank you for your response. I imagine in the case of a hunger strike in prison - which the above testimony was about - the fact that you're basically not moving all day must help with the weakness (not to mention slow down the actual starving due to lack of calories burning).
maxxxxx 9y ago
I have read that once your body starts burning muscle tissue it gets really painful. Thank God I have not experienced this. 10 days fasting is not bad. Towards the end I felt losing strength but otherwise was fine. I would not recommend doing this in a normal workday setting though.
- duozerk 9y ago
  Yeah, I've read that too and it seems logical; but again, the account I linked above says it isn't (which is what I found weird) - it says mostly you experience weakness but not pain, at least not after a few days.
sgsf-s9fs9f-9 9y ago
Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight. I felt great for most of it.
sgsf-s9fs9f-9 9y ago
Due to medical issues I fasted for 10 weeks. After around 1.5 months, I was getting nutrients via IV, though. I lost an average of a pound per day in weight. I was active and felt great for most of it. ~

etblg 9y ago

Why did you decide to fast for 12+ days?

lkrubner 9y ago
Health benefits. There is a whole world of study regarding the health benefits of long fasts. It gives your immune system a chance to generate a greater variety of responses to different pathogens. Also, it might have some benefit in staving off cancer, as it has been shown to offer aid with chemotherapy. See here: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boost-chemo/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boo...
- qbrass 9y ago
  Why 12 days though? Did you quit after seeing the downturn, or were you planning on 12 to begin with?
  - lkrubner 9y ago
    Social obligations. Which is what always ends my fasts. I had scheduled to do some traveling and meet some friends. I ate vegetarian food for the first week after the fast. It was two days till I got my strength back, and several more days before I felt 100%. I've read there is a unique kind of diabetes that comes up when you do a long fast. When we say "diabetes" we tend to think of Type II, which comes from over-eating, but I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response. And it makes sense that we wouldn't have much of an insulin response after 12 days without food. Because the purpose of insulin is to sweep excess nutrition out of our blood stream and into our cells, especially our fat cells, but if you've just gone 12 days without food, then there is no excess -- the cells are desperate for whatever nutrition they can get.
    - davnicwil 9y ago
      > I've read that "diabetes" actually refers to any disregulation of the insulin response I am assuming you know the difference between type 1 and 2 diabetes, but for the benefit of other people reading this, please be aware that in type 1 diabetes, the body's response to insulin is irrelevant - the body (pancreas) does not produce insulin at all, and thus it is necessary to inject insulin. It is a wholly different condition from type 2 diabetes.

micro-ram 9y ago

For anyone interested, there is a video on Amazon Prime called The Science of Fasting 2016.

LeifCarrotson 9y ago
Just watched it and was really unimpressed. For a documentary titled "the science of fasting" they really went out of their way to find the least credible sources and seemed to try appeal as much as possible to consumers of alternative and holistic medicine. Secret, untranslated texts by open-minded Soviet researchers, Western science rejecting studies out of a bias against unprofitable treatments, genetic memories of starving on the savannah, body resets and cleansing...I know a lot of people who are into fasting would really like that stuff, but I was hoping to find a description of fasting that avoided those sources.

frisco 9y ago

After about a week of no carbohydrates your body would enter ketosis, which uses a parallel set of metabolic processes that burn ketones rather than carbs. The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms. After ~48 hours those disappear and everything is ok again. Do you think that could have been what you were experiencing? Your body will fall out of ketosis very quickly as soon as you have some carbs.

mrob 9y ago
>The onset of ketosis is marked by really clear flu-like symptoms I tried a ketogenic diet once out of curiosity (confirmed ketosis with urine testing) and I did not experience this. I have read many other anecdotes of people who also did not experience it.
- rhinoceraptor 9y ago
  The flu like symptoms are mostly electrolyte imbalance in my experience. You lose a lot of water weight and salt.
  - mrob 9y ago
    Although I had not heard that reasoning before, I was told to increase water and salt consumption, which I did. Possibly this could have prevented any flu-like symptoms.
    - rhinoceraptor 9y ago
      When you deplete glycogen (you can store about 500 grams of it), you also lose 3 grams of water per gram of glycogen. So in total, you lose about 1.5 liters of water once you're fully glycogen depleted.
- frisco 9y ago
  Ok. I did experience it. It would be unsurprising if there is biological variability in this. But from the parent's description if they did experience symptoms like it, it seems like ketone flu is a highly likely explanation.

asdjasldkjkljd 9y ago

People experience the same thing when they switch to ketogenic diets (dubbed the "Keto flu"). The psuedosciency way I've seen their communities describe it as "withdrawal from carbohydrates" — increasing your electrolyte intake tends to help.

Angostura 9y ago

> The conclusion I draw from this is that some of the symptoms that we associate with viruses actually comes from the under-production of our normal enzymes. The conclusion I would have drawn is that different assaults on the metabolism can create similar symptoms.

rhinoceraptor 9y ago

I don't think 12 days is nearly enough time to deplete your protein, especially if you have weight to lose. Fasting/ketosis is protein sparing in and of itself, and if you have extra weight to lose, you have extra skin surrounding that fat which can be recycled.

mapster 9y ago
its long enough to become potassium deficient which is not a fun trip, but it should be a trip - to the ER for an IV drip.
- rhinoceraptor 9y ago
  Yep, a lot of people who are in to fasting will add lite salt to their water to prevent that.