4 ms·

40 Yr Stanford Study Found People with Delayed Gratification More Likely Succeed

38 points by elmar 9y ago

jfaucett 9y ago
I love research like this. Our psyches are so complex and we are so filled with biases and errors in a plethora of ways that the only way IMHO we can compensate for it long term is to understand how those structures work and build social systems and structures that auto-correct it. It looks like this area turns out to be one of the lucky ones that we can at least attempt to improve ourselves, unfortunately when it comes to cognition and particularly cognitive biases and errors to much of it seems not to work like muscles or have simple "do X" solutions.
tlb 9y ago
Just a reminder that this result doesn't imply that practicing delaying gratification will improve your success. It may well be that a third factor causes both ability to delay gratification, and success. It's remarkable that there is data about the outcomes of billions of lives, but we still have only vague indications about which behaviors lead to which outcomes.
- jfaucett 9y ago
  > It's remarkable that there is data about the outcomes of billions of lives, but we still have only vague indications about which behaviors lead to which outcomes. Do you really find that remarkable or is that just hyperbole? The fact that its so difficult to do controlled experiments - the holy grail of science - in this area in tandem with the fact that these are almost invariably complex systems we're dealing with makes it such that its not that surprising to me that we are still as confused as we are.
- itamarst 9y ago
  There are some relevant follow-up studies, e.g.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730121/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730121/ > We demonstrated that children’s sustained decisions to wait for a greater reward rather than quickly taking a lesser reward are strongly influenced by the reliability of the environment (in this case, the reliability of the researcher’s verbal assurances). More broadly, we have shown that young children’s performance on delay-of-gratification tasks can be strongly influenced by an implicit rational decision-making process.
- somerandomness 9y ago
  Causality is hard.
tabeth 9y ago
People who can delay gratification are likely those who have the means to do so to begin with. I know it's not the point of research, but it would really be nice if this stuff was more prescriptive (to the article's defense they do touch on this a bit in the end). Discipline and willpower and what not are great things, but for the average person simply creating an environment to which discipline is unnecessary is easier. Some more thoughts for anyone who's bored out there: ---------------------------------------------------- 1) Website usage: many people check websites religiously, just to see if anything is new. Most of the time nothing is new. A means to prevent the actual visiting of the website (which will lead to more wasted time) would be nice. Example, you refresh the page right now, perhaps there are some new comments, maybe there aren't. Either way, maybe it's only worth it if there are X amount of new comments. A way to prevent "pointless" checks would be nice. 2) Soft reminder: it's worth thinking about a potential way to get someone back on track without explicitly reminding them to do so. I'm not quite sure how would do this (redirect to a website that was being worked on, maximizing the window that was important) as figuring out important itself is difficult, but it's worth a thought. EDIT: grammar
- teilo 9y ago
  > People who can delay gratification are likely those who have the means to do so to begin with. What kind of means? Psychological means? Delayed gratification implies that the object of one's desire is not a staple of life. Therefore delayed gratification works to one's favor if they are limited by finances or time. This whole thing sounds like a water is wet argument to me.
  - tabeth 9y ago
    > Delayed gratification implies that the object of one's desire is not a staple of life. I don't agree with this statement. > Therefore delayed gratification works to one's favor if they are limited by finances or time. It's not that difficult -- delaying gratification is about making a calculation about expected value and utility. Questions such as, will I get more if I delay are obviously considered. Other questions such as whether I want more, or whether or not I actually think I will get more are also considered.
leggomylibro 9y ago
This is something I've been thinking about lately; so much recent pop culture centers about 'genius' figures who seem to always know what to do and how, but I don't believe that most big discoveries and innovations are a result of 'eureka' moments or some sort of savant who just Knows Everything. What I think matters, besides good old-fashioned luck, is having a person or group of people that is willing to bang its head against a brick wall for hours on end, day after day, week after week, until the cracks finally start to show. That sort of perseverance requires a lot of things, but the ability to put off a payday until you've gotten a few more metaphorical concussions is probably a big part of it.
- justinpombrio 9y ago
  > person or group of people that is willing to bang its head against a brick wall for hours on end, day after day, week after week, until the cracks finally start to show This is what getting a PhD is like (at least in STEM). I mean, you do have to be smart, but you also have to be willing to work on a specific, technical, narrowly defined problem for years. It's great.
- stmfreak 9y ago
  I think most people would be in shock to find out how much time is spent banging the proverbial head against the wall, without interruption to blow off steam, get a drink, go see a movie, etc. most people don't have the will power to maintain that focus for the months and years it takes to make those breakthroughs.
workthrowaway27 9y ago
Haven't read the study, but I bet this has a high correlation with the big five trait conscientiousness. That and IQ are great predictors of success.
mr_data 9y ago
Also, the more wealthy you are, the better you'd be at delaying gratification, even if you are very young. If you never know hunger or want and you know that the "marshmellow" will always be there, then you can more easily delay gratification. But if you are poor and you know that the marshmellow might not be there tomorrow, you are less likely to delay gratification.
joncrane 9y ago
Sometimes I think there's a perfect balance these people have between the ability to put off reward and the ability to enjoy reward. Because I can put off rewards but what I end up doing is saying "I can live without that reward forever" and it turns into asceticism, not success. I feel like if I could combine my ability to put off rewards with an enhanced sense of "winning" when I do finally pull something off, I could motivate myself to "succeed" better. But then again, what is "success?"
kazinator 9y ago
Some failing people are just delaying their gratification even more. What form of gratification could be more delayed than being unknown and struggling all your life, and then having your works achieve posthumous renown?

38 points by elmar 9y ago

I love research like this. Our psyches are so complex and we are so filled with biases and errors in a plethora of ways that the only way IMHO we can compensate for it long term is to understand how those structures work and build social systems and structures that auto-correct it. It looks like this area turns out to be one of the lucky ones that we can at least attempt to improve ourselves, unfortunately when it comes to cognition and particularly cognitive biases and errors to much of it seems not to work like muscles or have simple "do X" solutions.

tlb 9y ago

Just a reminder that this result doesn't imply that practicing delaying gratification will improve your success. It may well be that a third factor causes both ability to delay gratification, and success. It's remarkable that there is data about the outcomes of billions of lives, but we still have only vague indications about which behaviors lead to which outcomes.

jfaucett 9y ago
> It's remarkable that there is data about the outcomes of billions of lives, but we still have only vague indications about which behaviors lead to which outcomes. Do you really find that remarkable or is that just hyperbole? The fact that its so difficult to do controlled experiments - the holy grail of science - in this area in tandem with the fact that these are almost invariably complex systems we're dealing with makes it such that its not that surprising to me that we are still as confused as we are.
itamarst 9y ago
There are some relevant follow-up studies, e.g.: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730121/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730121/ > We demonstrated that children’s sustained decisions to wait for a greater reward rather than quickly taking a lesser reward are strongly influenced by the reliability of the environment (in this case, the reliability of the researcher’s verbal assurances). More broadly, we have shown that young children’s performance on delay-of-gratification tasks can be strongly influenced by an implicit rational decision-making process.
somerandomness 9y ago
Causality is hard.

tabeth 9y ago

People who can delay gratification are likely those who have the means to do so to begin with. I know it's not the point of research, but it would really be nice if this stuff was more prescriptive (to the article's defense they do touch on this a bit in the end). Discipline and willpower and what not are great things, but for the average person simply creating an environment to which discipline is unnecessary is easier. Some more thoughts for anyone who's bored out there: ---------------------------------------------------- 1) Website usage: many people check websites religiously, just to see if anything is new. Most of the time nothing is new. A means to prevent the actual visiting of the website (which will lead to more wasted time) would be nice. Example, you refresh the page right now, perhaps there are some new comments, maybe there aren't. Either way, maybe it's only worth it if there are X amount of new comments. A way to prevent "pointless" checks would be nice. 2) Soft reminder: it's worth thinking about a potential way to get someone back on track without explicitly reminding them to do so. I'm not quite sure how would do this (redirect to a website that was being worked on, maximizing the window that was important) as figuring out important itself is difficult, but it's worth a thought. EDIT: grammar

teilo 9y ago
> People who can delay gratification are likely those who have the means to do so to begin with. What kind of means? Psychological means? Delayed gratification implies that the object of one's desire is not a staple of life. Therefore delayed gratification works to one's favor if they are limited by finances or time. This whole thing sounds like a water is wet argument to me.
- tabeth 9y ago
  > Delayed gratification implies that the object of one's desire is not a staple of life. I don't agree with this statement. > Therefore delayed gratification works to one's favor if they are limited by finances or time. It's not that difficult -- delaying gratification is about making a calculation about expected value and utility. Questions such as, will I get more if I delay are obviously considered. Other questions such as whether I want more, or whether or not I actually think I will get more are also considered.

leggomylibro 9y ago

This is something I've been thinking about lately; so much recent pop culture centers about 'genius' figures who seem to always know what to do and how, but I don't believe that most big discoveries and innovations are a result of 'eureka' moments or some sort of savant who just Knows Everything. What I think matters, besides good old-fashioned luck, is having a person or group of people that is willing to bang its head against a brick wall for hours on end, day after day, week after week, until the cracks finally start to show. That sort of perseverance requires a lot of things, but the ability to put off a payday until you've gotten a few more metaphorical concussions is probably a big part of it.

justinpombrio 9y ago
> person or group of people that is willing to bang its head against a brick wall for hours on end, day after day, week after week, until the cracks finally start to show This is what getting a PhD is like (at least in STEM). I mean, you do have to be smart, but you also have to be willing to work on a specific, technical, narrowly defined problem for years. It's great.
stmfreak 9y ago
I think most people would be in shock to find out how much time is spent banging the proverbial head against the wall, without interruption to blow off steam, get a drink, go see a movie, etc. most people don't have the will power to maintain that focus for the months and years it takes to make those breakthroughs.

workthrowaway27 9y ago

Haven't read the study, but I bet this has a high correlation with the big five trait conscientiousness. That and IQ are great predictors of success.

mr_data 9y ago

Also, the more wealthy you are, the better you'd be at delaying gratification, even if you are very young. If you never know hunger or want and you know that the "marshmellow" will always be there, then you can more easily delay gratification. But if you are poor and you know that the marshmellow might not be there tomorrow, you are less likely to delay gratification.

joncrane 9y ago

Sometimes I think there's a perfect balance these people have between the ability to put off reward and the ability to enjoy reward. Because I can put off rewards but what I end up doing is saying "I can live without that reward forever" and it turns into asceticism, not success. I feel like if I could combine my ability to put off rewards with an enhanced sense of "winning" when I do finally pull something off, I could motivate myself to "succeed" better. But then again, what is "success?"

kazinator 9y ago

Some failing people are just delaying their gratification even more. What form of gratification could be more delayed than being unknown and struggling all your life, and then having your works achieve posthumous renown?