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iPhones have the longest life of any smartphone and you can verify that yourself by looking at the used market for it (and any Apple product). User replaceable

by IBM 9y ago

iPhones have the longest life of any smartphone and you can verify that yourself by looking at the used market for it (and any Apple product). User replaceable batteries may ironically decrease that and increase waste.

justonepost 9y ago
How would replaceable batteries decrease the life of the smartphone?
- jhiska 9y ago
  It wouldn't. It would obviously increase the lifespan of it. The spinsters are deliberately confusing "lifespan" with "resale value".
  - IBM 9y ago
    >The spinsters are deliberately confusing "lifespan" with "resale value". I realize I'm responding to someone arguing in bad faith. But lifespan directly influences the resale value.
    - jhiska 9y ago
      Replaceable batteries increase lifespan. The iPhone is a well-made phone which would have greater lifespan if the batteries were replaceable. As it is, users who bought an older iPhone now have to pay middle-men to replace the battery or face degraded performance.
      - valuearb 9y ago
        The iPhone already has replaceable batteries. Making them user-replaceable just reduces battery capacity, increases size/weight, all so in 2-3 years you can save about 5% of your purchase cost by replacing the battery yourself. iPhone users buy iPhones because they wanted the best in class functionality, if they wanted to save money they'd buy a phone with a replaceable battery.
- IBM 9y ago
  It is replaceable (by Apple, authorized and unauthorized third parties). User replaceable batteries could increase waste by being less reliable overall. I know every TV remote I've owned with a battery door eventually ends up with a rubber band around it, and I think that's pretty much a universal experience. Also we've had this debate for years already when Apple went to unibody Macbooks. The reliability and battery life only increased because of the better structural integrity and increased room for battery cells.
  - jhiska 9y ago
    It is not easily replaceable as with any other phone. The issue is not creating waste, but wasting one's money on middle-men for replacing one's phone batteries. >I know every TV remote I've owned with a battery door eventually ends up with a rubber band around it, and I think that's pretty much a universal experience. You're relating a supposedly personal story to make your spin claims more relatable. Maybe you're like the people in late-night TV commercials who seemingly can't open a can of tomatoes without massive bleeding? ;)
    - chrisseaton 9y ago
      > The issue is not creating waste, but wasting one's money on middle-men for replacing one's phone batteries. Well I could say I'm spending that money on having a nicer phone that's sealed and seamless, rather than wasting it.
      - jhiska 9y ago
        Sealed, seamless, performance-degraded, costly to service, with planned obsolescence. It's quite obvious that it's a waste of money to pay middle-men to perform basic service on it for stuff a user can do at home with any other phone.
        chrisseaton 9y ago
        Right... but the point was I get something, in return for having to pay middle-men to service it. It's a trade I'm happy with. Maybe you aren't, but it works for me.
logfromblammo 9y ago
What metrics are you looking at in the used market to support your hypothesis? Could they be explained by a different hypothesis? I'm still enjoying my 3-year-old non-iPhone, and intend to keep using it until it stops working entirely, whereas my spouse with an iPhone was already voicing suspicion before this announcement that Apple was intentionally slowing their old iPhone through updates, just to provoke an upgrade. With the announcement, I can't fault the reasoning. How much of the used market for iPhones are devices that had been traded in (because slowed by Apple due to old battery), refurbished by the mobile phone company (probably just to replace the battery and reset it to factory settings), and then resold to people whose older model refurbished iPhone now needs yet another new battery? That generates an additional sale of an entire old iPhone, whereas other phones would only generate a sale of a replacement battery at that time. I think you would probably have to look at what mobile phone customers are actually using, right now.
- IBM 9y ago
  The fact that iPhones are updated for the longest time and are built well is directly related to why you can get as much as you can when you sell a used iPhone. Apple actually has an incentive to create the longest lasting iPhone because the economics of the iPhone Upgrade Plan and every carrier upgrade plan depends on it. That iPhones retain their value over time is a testament to the fact that Apple has not been slowing down old iPhones to make you upgrade (this conspiracy theory predates iOS 10.2.1 by many years).
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    But I don't intend to sell my non-iPhone, ever. It works as well for me now as it did when I first bought it, so why would I? It's the same reason why I'm never going to sell my 2001 Honda Civic. Have you examined the reasons why iPhone owners sell their older iPhones, and why people buy refurbished used iPhones?
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    > That iPhones retain their value over time is a testament to the fact that Apple has not been slowing down old iPhones Not at all. It's a testament that there is a market for old iPhones, that is all. People are possibly buying used iPhones despite them being slowed down. > Apple actually has an incentive to create the longest lasting iPhone because the economics of the iPhone Upgrade Plan and every carrier upgrade plan depends on it. Then why don't they? <5 years for an electronic device that hasn't seen any significant upgrades in later models is absurdly short.

by IBM 9y ago

justonepost 9y ago

How would replaceable batteries decrease the life of the smartphone?

jhiska 9y ago
It wouldn't. It would obviously increase the lifespan of it. The spinsters are deliberately confusing "lifespan" with "resale value".
- IBM 9y ago
  >The spinsters are deliberately confusing "lifespan" with "resale value". I realize I'm responding to someone arguing in bad faith. But lifespan directly influences the resale value.
  - jhiska 9y ago
    Replaceable batteries increase lifespan. The iPhone is a well-made phone which would have greater lifespan if the batteries were replaceable. As it is, users who bought an older iPhone now have to pay middle-men to replace the battery or face degraded performance.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      The iPhone already has replaceable batteries. Making them user-replaceable just reduces battery capacity, increases size/weight, all so in 2-3 years you can save about 5% of your purchase cost by replacing the battery yourself. iPhone users buy iPhones because they wanted the best in class functionality, if they wanted to save money they'd buy a phone with a replaceable battery.
IBM 9y ago
It is replaceable (by Apple, authorized and unauthorized third parties). User replaceable batteries could increase waste by being less reliable overall. I know every TV remote I've owned with a battery door eventually ends up with a rubber band around it, and I think that's pretty much a universal experience. Also we've had this debate for years already when Apple went to unibody Macbooks. The reliability and battery life only increased because of the better structural integrity and increased room for battery cells.
- jhiska 9y ago
  It is not easily replaceable as with any other phone. The issue is not creating waste, but wasting one's money on middle-men for replacing one's phone batteries. >I know every TV remote I've owned with a battery door eventually ends up with a rubber band around it, and I think that's pretty much a universal experience. You're relating a supposedly personal story to make your spin claims more relatable. Maybe you're like the people in late-night TV commercials who seemingly can't open a can of tomatoes without massive bleeding? ;)
  - chrisseaton 9y ago
    > The issue is not creating waste, but wasting one's money on middle-men for replacing one's phone batteries. Well I could say I'm spending that money on having a nicer phone that's sealed and seamless, rather than wasting it.
    - jhiska 9y ago
      Sealed, seamless, performance-degraded, costly to service, with planned obsolescence. It's quite obvious that it's a waste of money to pay middle-men to perform basic service on it for stuff a user can do at home with any other phone.
      - chrisseaton 9y ago
        Right... but the point was I get something, in return for having to pay middle-men to service it. It's a trade I'm happy with. Maybe you aren't, but it works for me.

logfromblammo 9y ago

What metrics are you looking at in the used market to support your hypothesis? Could they be explained by a different hypothesis? I'm still enjoying my 3-year-old non-iPhone, and intend to keep using it until it stops working entirely, whereas my spouse with an iPhone was already voicing suspicion before this announcement that Apple was intentionally slowing their old iPhone through updates, just to provoke an upgrade. With the announcement, I can't fault the reasoning. How much of the used market for iPhones are devices that had been traded in (because slowed by Apple due to old battery), refurbished by the mobile phone company (probably just to replace the battery and reset it to factory settings), and then resold to people whose older model refurbished iPhone now needs yet another new battery? That generates an additional sale of an entire old iPhone, whereas other phones would only generate a sale of a replacement battery at that time. I think you would probably have to look at what mobile phone customers are actually using, right now.

IBM 9y ago
The fact that iPhones are updated for the longest time and are built well is directly related to why you can get as much as you can when you sell a used iPhone. Apple actually has an incentive to create the longest lasting iPhone because the economics of the iPhone Upgrade Plan and every carrier upgrade plan depends on it. That iPhones retain their value over time is a testament to the fact that Apple has not been slowing down old iPhones to make you upgrade (this conspiracy theory predates iOS 10.2.1 by many years).
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  But I don't intend to sell my non-iPhone, ever. It works as well for me now as it did when I first bought it, so why would I? It's the same reason why I'm never going to sell my 2001 Honda Civic. Have you examined the reasons why iPhone owners sell their older iPhones, and why people buy refurbished used iPhones?
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  > That iPhones retain their value over time is a testament to the fact that Apple has not been slowing down old iPhones Not at all. It's a testament that there is a market for old iPhones, that is all. People are possibly buying used iPhones despite them being slowed down. > Apple actually has an incentive to create the longest lasting iPhone because the economics of the iPhone Upgrade Plan and every carrier upgrade plan depends on it. Then why don't they? <5 years for an electronic device that hasn't seen any significant upgrades in later models is absurdly short.