5 ms·

Medical bankruptcy isn't really a thing in the rest of the world. That's part of the safety net, and it's hard to reconcile with the notion of 'personal respons

Medical bankruptcy isn't really a thing in the rest of the world. That's part of the safety net, and it's hard to reconcile with the notion of 'personal responsibility'. > I don't expect everyone else to pay for my family's bad luck / misfortune If you take out an insurance contract, that's exactly what you're doing.

GiorgioG 9y ago
> Medical bankruptcy isn't really a thing in the rest of the world. Agreed, it's a problem, but for the average person with a job who elects an insurance plan (the vast majority of Americans,) it's not an issue. My sister-in-law spent 4 years being treated for cancer before passing away last year. Despite running up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bills between chemo, multiple surgeries, etc, it did not bankrupt her family because they had health insurance. > If you take out an insurance contract, that's exactly what you're doing. Except we're explicitly buying-in. Until we have universal health care, I don't expect others to pick up the tab because I prefer that my son have the absolute best current tech available.
- soVeryTired 9y ago
  But don't you think there could be a correlation between poor family health and an inability to get a job (and hence insurance)? Caring obligations, mental health, or any number of other reasons could be a hindrance. I honestly don't think 'get a job and you'll be fine' is a particularly good way to help to someone with health problems. It's a big hole in the US safety net.
- FabHK 9y ago
  > the average person with a job who elects an insurance plan It also forces you to stay in a job, even if it turns sour, until you've lined up an alternative. I can't help but think that employers like it.
  - GiorgioG 9y ago
    With COBRA, you can keep your health insurance (of course you have to pay for it) even if you quit/get-fired. I don't know about you, but I've never quit my job just because a situation turned sour. There have been cases where I said "ok, it's time to look for a new job." But never "Take this job and shove it - I quit!"
- Mouse47 9y ago
  It is an issue for the rest of us, though. From: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-fewer-employers-offering-health-insurance/article/2615450 http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-fewer-employers-offe... >Nationwide, 83.8 percent of workers in 2015 had jobs that offered insurance In other words, 16.2% of workers have jobs that don't offer insurance. That's 3 in 20.
  - GiorgioG 9y ago
    I don't say this to demean these people but I would guess that a majority of that 16% are low-skill/minimum wage jobs. When you don't have skills that are in demand, employers less likely to offer benefits. Businesses are just like people, if they can get away with paying less, they will. I'm not saying it's right. I'm hoping the Republicans manage to screw things up enough to lose Congress in 2018. If that happens, Trump will go all-in on single-payer/universal healthcare. He has no loyalty, and in the past (prior to running for office) he was pro-single-payer. So we'll see what happens.
    - thecolorblue 9y ago
      > When you don't have skills that are in demand, employers less likely to offer benefits. And there is the difference. The US is about survival of the fittest.
      - GiorgioG 9y ago
        Edit: I originally responded to the wrong parent. This isn't about survival of the fittest, if you have no skill, then you are going to have trouble finding a job that has good benefits. No one is stopping you from acquiring a skill (outside of cases when you're sick...obviously.) You can become a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc. and make a decent living.
        mgkimsal 9y ago
        and... we'll just give a big 'fuck you' to everyone else who gets sick at some point, and can't go back to work, or has skills that get passed by in the marketplace. hey - just go back to school for a few years, juggling some low wage jobs while you get more skills! so that you can win some approval from some employer where yay you can pay extra money to have some insurance so you can afford medicine to keep yourself alive. whew! That doesn't sound like "survival of the fittest" AT ALL. not sure that the OP was thinking about. The word "benefits" just irks the hell out of me in the first place. Maybe the entire concept of "benefits" being synonymous "things that give you access to something that keeps you alive and healthy", and tying said stuff to "employment" (something very much at the whim of people and factors often outside your control - handicaps, geography, family obligations, etc) we could think about the issue a bit differently. Also... society needs people to be doing low-end crappy work. Are they just deserving enough to find a job that has "good benefits"?

GiorgioG 9y ago

> Medical bankruptcy isn't really a thing in the rest of the world. Agreed, it's a problem, but for the average person with a job who elects an insurance plan (the vast majority of Americans,) it's not an issue. My sister-in-law spent 4 years being treated for cancer before passing away last year. Despite running up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bills between chemo, multiple surgeries, etc, it did not bankrupt her family because they had health insurance. > If you take out an insurance contract, that's exactly what you're doing. Except we're explicitly buying-in. Until we have universal health care, I don't expect others to pick up the tab because I prefer that my son have the absolute best current tech available.

soVeryTired 9y ago
But don't you think there could be a correlation between poor family health and an inability to get a job (and hence insurance)? Caring obligations, mental health, or any number of other reasons could be a hindrance. I honestly don't think 'get a job and you'll be fine' is a particularly good way to help to someone with health problems. It's a big hole in the US safety net.
FabHK 9y ago
> the average person with a job who elects an insurance plan It also forces you to stay in a job, even if it turns sour, until you've lined up an alternative. I can't help but think that employers like it.
- GiorgioG 9y ago
  With COBRA, you can keep your health insurance (of course you have to pay for it) even if you quit/get-fired. I don't know about you, but I've never quit my job just because a situation turned sour. There have been cases where I said "ok, it's time to look for a new job." But never "Take this job and shove it - I quit!"
Mouse47 9y ago
It is an issue for the rest of us, though. From: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-fewer-employers-offering-health-insurance/article/2615450 http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-fewer-employers-offe... >Nationwide, 83.8 percent of workers in 2015 had jobs that offered insurance In other words, 16.2% of workers have jobs that don't offer insurance. That's 3 in 20.
- GiorgioG 9y ago
  I don't say this to demean these people but I would guess that a majority of that 16% are low-skill/minimum wage jobs. When you don't have skills that are in demand, employers less likely to offer benefits. Businesses are just like people, if they can get away with paying less, they will. I'm not saying it's right. I'm hoping the Republicans manage to screw things up enough to lose Congress in 2018. If that happens, Trump will go all-in on single-payer/universal healthcare. He has no loyalty, and in the past (prior to running for office) he was pro-single-payer. So we'll see what happens.
  - thecolorblue 9y ago
    > When you don't have skills that are in demand, employers less likely to offer benefits. And there is the difference. The US is about survival of the fittest.
    - GiorgioG 9y ago
      Edit: I originally responded to the wrong parent. This isn't about survival of the fittest, if you have no skill, then you are going to have trouble finding a job that has good benefits. No one is stopping you from acquiring a skill (outside of cases when you're sick...obviously.) You can become a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc. and make a decent living.
      - mgkimsal 9y ago
        and... we'll just give a big 'fuck you' to everyone else who gets sick at some point, and can't go back to work, or has skills that get passed by in the marketplace. hey - just go back to school for a few years, juggling some low wage jobs while you get more skills! so that you can win some approval from some employer where yay you can pay extra money to have some insurance so you can afford medicine to keep yourself alive. whew! That doesn't sound like "survival of the fittest" AT ALL. not sure that the OP was thinking about. The word "benefits" just irks the hell out of me in the first place. Maybe the entire concept of "benefits" being synonymous "things that give you access to something that keeps you alive and healthy", and tying said stuff to "employment" (something very much at the whim of people and factors often outside your control - handicaps, geography, family obligations, etc) we could think about the issue a bit differently. Also... society needs people to be doing low-end crappy work. Are they just deserving enough to find a job that has "good benefits"?