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> I think peoples expectations are just absurd. From the perspective of environmentalism, I think all phones should have mandatory replaceable batteries. Is th

> I think peoples expectations are just absurd. From the perspective of environmentalism, I think all phones should have mandatory replaceable batteries. Is that really so absurd? Why are companies allowed to design devices with such disregard for the environment.

jakobegger 9y ago
The batteries are replaceable — you just need a few tools.
- throwanem 9y ago
  That's true for iPhones before the 5 series. After that, it just goes completely bonkers. See my sibling comment to yours, and the two iFixit guides linked from there - as I mention there, I don't regard the idea of doing my own device repairs as especially trepidatory in general, but current Apple hardware is an extremely special case.
  - ballenf 9y ago
    True, but we're still not talking about the batteries being soldered to the board, like with RAM or storage on newer computers.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      A point, but as far as I know the next phone manufacturer to do that will be the first.
      - throwanem 9y ago
        ...he said, before checking the iFixit teardown for the used iPod Touch bought to serve as a stereo headend. It's not precisely a phone, but that's not much excuse.
throwanem 9y ago
All phones do have replaceable batteries, if you're brave enough. But Apple sets the bravery bar extremely high. The process of replacing a battery in e.g. my SE is insane: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+SE+Battery+Replacement/61303 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+SE+Battery+Replacement/6... describes the teardown, and https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+Battery+Adhesive+Strips+Replacement/56465 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+Battery+Adhesive+Strips+... the process of applying adhesive to the replacement battery - yes, that second task is complex and difficult enough to require an entire separate guide of its own. I get that the goal of this design is to ensure that the battery does not move once it's fixed into the case. And I understand why that's necessary. What I don't understand is why it can't practicably be achieved by a combination of closer dimensional tolerances and the application of some thin elastomer to the parts of the case that contact the battery. Given the complexity of the assembly process, I can't imagine that such a design would be more difficult to assemble than the one that shipped, and it would provide a considerably more approachable battery replacement process - I'm not shy about performing my own device repairs, and I'm good enough at it that I haven't ruined anything yet, but this is one where I'd rather pay the $79 to have it done in an Apple store, and the adhesive is about 95% of why.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  And all humans _do_ have replaceable kidneys and hearts but we cant't go around hot swapping them on a hike.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    The expressed concern around environmentalism suggests we're discussing this in a context of replacing batteries rather than throwing phones away, instead of hot-swapping batteries to keep using a device while away from a charger.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  I successfully replaced the battery in an iPhone 3GS once because the battery had inflated like a bag of microwave popcorn. A few months later the replacement battery also did the same.
ballenf 9y ago
This is not a cost-free shift: additional components are required to make an easily replaceable battery. So you're adding in environmental cost to every phone and in return you get environmental savings from the phones that would be used longer if the battery were more easily replaceable. It's easy to only think about one side of this issue. To put it another way, think about the additional layer of plastic needed under the battery compartment to protect the device internals while the battery compartment is open. There are additional component changes and efficiencies lost to make this move. Then there's the battery itself -- the replaceable ones are much more robust in design and shielding -- additional plastic. They also have to have bigger contact points to ensure a good connection. It might still be a net positive, but it's not a no-brainer call.
- Yetanfou 9y ago
  Yes, batteries should be replaceable and all those things you mention - '... the additional layer of plastic needed under the battery compartment ...', '... replaceable ones are much more robust in design and shielding -- additional plastic ...' don't make any sense at all. Any 'need for any additional plastic' in devices with replaceable batteries is easily offset with the messy sticky tape Apple deems necessary to hold their batteries in place. In practice the battery usually just lies atop the circuit board with a thin sheet of some insulating material in between. That sheet of material is part of the device and does not need to be replaced when the battery is swapped, this in contrast to the double-sided tape Apple uses which needs to be replaced whenever the battery is removed. Replaceable batteries are no more robust than non-replaceable ones, both consist of a Li-polymer pouch with a bit of circuitry attached somewhere, the combination wrapped in heavy tape or shrink foil. Batteries should be replaceable without the need for special tools (a simple standard screwdriver (Torx or Phillips) is OK, pentalobe screwdrivers are not) OR they should last the life of the device without significant degradation.
briandear 9y ago
You are free to make the choice to not buy phones you deem environmentally unfriendly.

jakobegger 9y ago

The batteries are replaceable — you just need a few tools.

throwanem 9y ago
That's true for iPhones before the 5 series. After that, it just goes completely bonkers. See my sibling comment to yours, and the two iFixit guides linked from there - as I mention there, I don't regard the idea of doing my own device repairs as especially trepidatory in general, but current Apple hardware is an extremely special case.
- ballenf 9y ago
  True, but we're still not talking about the batteries being soldered to the board, like with RAM or storage on newer computers.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    A point, but as far as I know the next phone manufacturer to do that will be the first.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      ...he said, before checking the iFixit teardown for the used iPod Touch bought to serve as a stereo headend. It's not precisely a phone, but that's not much excuse.

throwanem 9y ago

All phones do have replaceable batteries, if you're brave enough. But Apple sets the bravery bar extremely high. The process of replacing a battery in e.g. my SE is insane: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+SE+Battery+Replacement/61303 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+SE+Battery+Replacement/6... describes the teardown, and https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+Battery+Adhesive+Strips+Replacement/56465 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+Battery+Adhesive+Strips+... the process of applying adhesive to the replacement battery - yes, that second task is complex and difficult enough to require an entire separate guide of its own. I get that the goal of this design is to ensure that the battery does not move once it's fixed into the case. And I understand why that's necessary. What I don't understand is why it can't practicably be achieved by a combination of closer dimensional tolerances and the application of some thin elastomer to the parts of the case that contact the battery. Given the complexity of the assembly process, I can't imagine that such a design would be more difficult to assemble than the one that shipped, and it would provide a considerably more approachable battery replacement process - I'm not shy about performing my own device repairs, and I'm good enough at it that I haven't ruined anything yet, but this is one where I'd rather pay the $79 to have it done in an Apple store, and the adhesive is about 95% of why.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
And all humans _do_ have replaceable kidneys and hearts but we cant't go around hot swapping them on a hike.
- throwanem 9y ago
  The expressed concern around environmentalism suggests we're discussing this in a context of replacing batteries rather than throwing phones away, instead of hot-swapping batteries to keep using a device while away from a charger.
beamatronic 9y ago
I successfully replaced the battery in an iPhone 3GS once because the battery had inflated like a bag of microwave popcorn. A few months later the replacement battery also did the same.

ballenf 9y ago

This is not a cost-free shift: additional components are required to make an easily replaceable battery. So you're adding in environmental cost to every phone and in return you get environmental savings from the phones that would be used longer if the battery were more easily replaceable. It's easy to only think about one side of this issue. To put it another way, think about the additional layer of plastic needed under the battery compartment to protect the device internals while the battery compartment is open. There are additional component changes and efficiencies lost to make this move. Then there's the battery itself -- the replaceable ones are much more robust in design and shielding -- additional plastic. They also have to have bigger contact points to ensure a good connection. It might still be a net positive, but it's not a no-brainer call.

Yetanfou 9y ago
Yes, batteries should be replaceable and all those things you mention - '... the additional layer of plastic needed under the battery compartment ...', '... replaceable ones are much more robust in design and shielding -- additional plastic ...' don't make any sense at all. Any 'need for any additional plastic' in devices with replaceable batteries is easily offset with the messy sticky tape Apple deems necessary to hold their batteries in place. In practice the battery usually just lies atop the circuit board with a thin sheet of some insulating material in between. That sheet of material is part of the device and does not need to be replaced when the battery is swapped, this in contrast to the double-sided tape Apple uses which needs to be replaced whenever the battery is removed. Replaceable batteries are no more robust than non-replaceable ones, both consist of a Li-polymer pouch with a bit of circuitry attached somewhere, the combination wrapped in heavy tape or shrink foil. Batteries should be replaceable without the need for special tools (a simple standard screwdriver (Torx or Phillips) is OK, pentalobe screwdrivers are not) OR they should last the life of the device without significant degradation.

briandear 9y ago

You are free to make the choice to not buy phones you deem environmentally unfriendly.