4 ms·

Personally, I think one of the main problems with current use of CGI (specifically in non-animated movies) is color treatment. Comparisons between the original

by pecg 9y ago

Personally, I think one of the main problems with current use of CGI (specifically in non-animated movies) is color treatment. Comparisons between the original non-altered version of Jurassic Park (JP) against Jurassic World (JW) shows my point. There is an increased tendency to change hue and saturation of color in post-production, in order to transmit ideas or set moods on the film itself, but this makes CGI look faker than what it is and the brain is able to identify it. EDIT: I prefer the look of JP over JW, not because I think it has better CGI, but because colors look more closer to reality.

niceperson 9y ago
That's correct. You can compare Snyder's work in Batman v Superman to Joss Whedon's last-minute changes in Justice League and how the CGI is actually worse off in a film that has a higher budget and lower runtime than the former.
- pecg 9y ago
  Justice League is in Star Wars: The Attack of the Clones' level of horrendous abuse of CGI.
Balgair 9y ago
I mean, complaining about the color realism of a film with gigantic monster dinosaurs (whose coloration we may never know to begin with) seems a bit silly. Movies are not documentaries. I'd buy in a bit more for things like the BBC's 'Planet Earth' needing color realism, but even then it's ok to dramatize things. Every Frame a Painting goes over Michael Bay's work and includes some color content he uses and WHY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q
- Danihan 9y ago
  It's not silly when we're specifically discussing REALISM
  - Balgair 9y ago
    But with Dinos, we can't. We've no idea what their color was, if they even have color receptors in their eyes, nor their movements. Fantasy is just as good as reality when it comes to T-Rex coloration and if they had feathers or not. BTW, I tried to do a quick google on the current research and mostly came up with mixed answers. If anyone form HN knows about dino feather coverings, please chime in!
    - Danihan 9y ago
      >Fantasy is just as good as reality when it comes to T-Rex coloration The perception of realism would still matter. Just use test audiences to see what people believe looks the most real.
      - Balgair 9y ago
        No, the studios want returns on their investment, at least enough to recoup costs and the perception of realism, to an audience, is not realism. What an audience thinks is real is often not real. Audiences love to hear sounds in space movies, yet that is impossible. Audiences think that spies have techno baubles and cool stuff, but they mostly have budget rate bureaucracy. Audiences think that we all live happily ever after, but we all know that's not reality. Movies aren't documentaries, they are entertainment you pay for. Also, a realistic T-Rex may never survive in our modern atmosphere. Those lungs are so large because O2 content was about half of today's (http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/atmospheric-oxygen-during-dinosaurs-time-much-lower-than-assumed-says-study-3641691.html http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/atmospheric-oxyg...) and the mix of dinos they have in JP is just a mess of evolutionary reality.
        ogre_magi 9y ago
        This thread has really activated your almonds, huh?
        Balgair 9y ago
- rsl7 9y ago
  ...but the whole point of the effects in those movies is to bring the idea to life, to make the unbelievable seem real and believable. If it fails to do that, it’s not silly to discuss how and why.
  - Balgair 9y ago
    I thought movies were to make money, at least ones like the recent spat of Jurassic ones. JP, yeah, realism to a degree, BoB Horner became a household name because of it. And it was somewhat realistic for the research at the time. But nearly all the dinos should be covered in furry Emu-like feathers now if we want realism. And shaggy dirt-brown feathers aren't good looking and 'dazzle'. Maybe for some it's worth $10.50 to watch, but not for most.
    - pecg 9y ago
      When JP was filmed, the discovery of dinosaurs having feathers hadn't happened yet, and big efforts were made on providing accurate representations of what was known about the creatures. Back then scientists still thought dinosaurs were reptiles' ancestors, so the skin had to look reptile-like; personally, I think they succeeded, and a bigger success was shown in The Lost World, years after.
      - Balgair 9y ago
        The new trailer for JW just came out, no feathers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9mMeWcgoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9mMeWcgoM
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        wtetzner 9y ago
        Yes, and the original point was that JP did a better job than JW.
      - lowtolerance 9y ago
munificent 9y ago
Modern color treatment in film totally drives me crazy, independent of what it does to CGI. It seems like every film coming out of Hollywood these days is processed exactly the same way: * Crank down the low end so half the frame is solid inky black. * Pick one or two key colors, and jack up their saturation. * Desaturate everything else. In other words, make the entire movie look like an over-dramatic poster for it. Throw any sense of naturalism or unique look out the door. Once you notice it, you see it everywhere. Here's the top live action movies of 2016: Rogue One Cyan and olive: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rogue-One-A-Star-Wars-Story15.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rogue-O... Captain America: Civil War Yellow and red: http://cdn3-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/civil-war-trailer-2-screenshots/cwttss03.jpg http://cdn3-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/civ... Why they felt the need to make Cap's lip rosy red is beyond me. Even better is this shot: http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Captain-America-Civil-War-cast-photo-Renner-Johansson-Evans-Sebastian-Stan.jpg http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/... This is a daylight shot. Look at how the characters are all squinting. Look at the big white fluffly clouds that should be diffusing the light and softening shadows. And yet, magically, all of the shadows are jet black and almost all of the color is gone. The Jungle Book Green and red (to draw attention to Mowgli): https://www.moviedeskback.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The_Jungle_Book_HD_Screencaps-23.png https://www.moviedeskback.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The... Deadpool Another daylight shot with nonsensical shading: http://turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Deadpool-Movie-Screenshot-Brianna-Hildebrand-Negasonic-Teenage-Warhead-Texting.jpg http://turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dea... The light is clearly diffuse, if you look at the shadows on the ground, and yet there is this deep black everywhere. Deadpool took the look further by only picking one color (red, Deadpool's outfit color) for the entire film. Lest you think this is just an issue with superhero movies, let's ignore those and look at the other top non-superhero movies of 2016: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them More of the same: http://harrypotterfanzone.com/wp-content/2016/09/fantastic-beasts-trailer-screenshot75.png http://harrypotterfanzone.com/wp-content/2016/09/fantastic-b... It also suffers strongly from the "It's a period movie so we're going to sepia tone everything so hard it looks like you're watching the movie through an aquarium full of pee" effect. Hidden Figures https://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hiddenfigures.jpg https://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hidden... More of the period movie sepia along with an improbably jacked up complementary cyan. Star Trek Beyond If the past is warm, the future must be cool: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Star-Trek-Beyond2.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Star-Tr... Blacks, grays and neon cyan, just like Rogue One. Look how unnatural his skin tone is! They wanted to jack up yellow to complement their primary blue so much that the poor dude has jaundice: http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/star-trek-beyond-trailer-cover.jpg http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/s... La La Land I'll give this one some credit for varying it up a bit. Also, dramatic spotlit stage lighting is a logical part of the movie's look. But it's still prey to the same cliched look in places: http://henrymollman.com/content/images/2017/01/Screenshot-from-2017-01-18-22-36-49-1.png http://henrymollman.com/content/images/2017/01/Screenshot-fr... Ghostbusters Ectoplasm green and spooky violet were the key colors for the whole film. Secondary colors tend to come across as magical or eerie to viewers since they're different from the safe and familiary primary colors. Of course, jacking up magenta doesn't do flattering things to skin: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Ghostbusters2.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Ghostbu... Also, what color is Melissa McCarthy's coat? Is it actually black? Who fucking knows. Central Intelligence The traditional comedy look is brightly-lit and saturated, so Central Intelligence didn't fare quite as poorly as the above. Whenever they had a chance to dim the lights, though, they revert to the same cliched look as well: https://i2.wp.com/doblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/centralintelligence2944.jpg https://i2.wp.com/doblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/centr... The Legend of Tarzan http://images3.static-bluray.com/reviews/14209_5.jpg http://images3.static-bluray.com/reviews/14209_5.jpg Jesus, we get it, colorist. They're in the wet jungle. We don't need to be physically assaulted with the colors blue and green to figure that out. ...You get the idea. Go back and watch a movie from before 2000 and you'll quickly realize how much more pleasant to look at most of them where, and how much more variety there was in look. Compare Alien to The Graduate. But it seems like ever since the rise of digital coloring and superhero movies, Hollywood has decided every single fucking movie needs to look like a comic book page, whether it needs it or not. One recent movie I really liked that bucked this trend was Her. It was heavily colorized, but in a way that stood out. In shots like these, even though there's a strong color cast and a lot of dark, there's still always some color and detail in the shadows: https://i1.wp.com/turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Her-Movie-2013-Screenshot-Theodore-Apartment.jpg https://i1.wp.com/turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/... https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/her-screenshot-14.jpg https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/w...
the8472 9y ago
https://i.imgur.com/sr1HLwV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sr1HLwV.jpg comparison image for jurassic world. from top to bottom: 1st trailer, superbowl ad, tv ad from a later date.
- bluthru 9y ago
  I wonder if color graders have very different taste than I do, or they're pushed by producers to make the image garish.
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  Interesting to note that the background changed significantly in each of the shots.

by pecg 9y ago

niceperson 9y ago

That's correct. You can compare Snyder's work in Batman v Superman to Joss Whedon's last-minute changes in Justice League and how the CGI is actually worse off in a film that has a higher budget and lower runtime than the former.

pecg 9y ago
Justice League is in Star Wars: The Attack of the Clones' level of horrendous abuse of CGI.

Balgair 9y ago

I mean, complaining about the color realism of a film with gigantic monster dinosaurs (whose coloration we may never know to begin with) seems a bit silly. Movies are not documentaries. I'd buy in a bit more for things like the BBC's 'Planet Earth' needing color realism, but even then it's ok to dramatize things. Every Frame a Painting goes over Michael Bay's work and includes some color content he uses and WHY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2THVvshvq0Q

Danihan 9y ago
It's not silly when we're specifically discussing REALISM
- Balgair 9y ago
  But with Dinos, we can't. We've no idea what their color was, if they even have color receptors in their eyes, nor their movements. Fantasy is just as good as reality when it comes to T-Rex coloration and if they had feathers or not. BTW, I tried to do a quick google on the current research and mostly came up with mixed answers. If anyone form HN knows about dino feather coverings, please chime in!
  - Danihan 9y ago
    >Fantasy is just as good as reality when it comes to T-Rex coloration The perception of realism would still matter. Just use test audiences to see what people believe looks the most real.
    - Balgair 9y ago
      No, the studios want returns on their investment, at least enough to recoup costs and the perception of realism, to an audience, is not realism. What an audience thinks is real is often not real. Audiences love to hear sounds in space movies, yet that is impossible. Audiences think that spies have techno baubles and cool stuff, but they mostly have budget rate bureaucracy. Audiences think that we all live happily ever after, but we all know that's not reality. Movies aren't documentaries, they are entertainment you pay for. Also, a realistic T-Rex may never survive in our modern atmosphere. Those lungs are so large because O2 content was about half of today's (http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/atmospheric-oxygen-during-dinosaurs-time-much-lower-than-assumed-says-study-3641691.html http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/atmospheric-oxyg...) and the mix of dinos they have in JP is just a mess of evolutionary reality.
      - ogre_magi 9y ago
        This thread has really activated your almonds, huh?
        Balgair 9y ago
rsl7 9y ago
...but the whole point of the effects in those movies is to bring the idea to life, to make the unbelievable seem real and believable. If it fails to do that, it’s not silly to discuss how and why.
- Balgair 9y ago
  I thought movies were to make money, at least ones like the recent spat of Jurassic ones. JP, yeah, realism to a degree, BoB Horner became a household name because of it. And it was somewhat realistic for the research at the time. But nearly all the dinos should be covered in furry Emu-like feathers now if we want realism. And shaggy dirt-brown feathers aren't good looking and 'dazzle'. Maybe for some it's worth $10.50 to watch, but not for most.
  - pecg 9y ago
    When JP was filmed, the discovery of dinosaurs having feathers hadn't happened yet, and big efforts were made on providing accurate representations of what was known about the creatures. Back then scientists still thought dinosaurs were reptiles' ancestors, so the skin had to look reptile-like; personally, I think they succeeded, and a bigger success was shown in The Lost World, years after.
    - Balgair 9y ago
      The new trailer for JW just came out, no feathers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9mMeWcgoM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9mMeWcgoM
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - wtetzner 9y ago
        Yes, and the original point was that JP did a better job than JW.
    - lowtolerance 9y ago

munificent 9y ago

Modern color treatment in film totally drives me crazy, independent of what it does to CGI. It seems like every film coming out of Hollywood these days is processed exactly the same way: * Crank down the low end so half the frame is solid inky black. * Pick one or two key colors, and jack up their saturation. * Desaturate everything else. In other words, make the entire movie look like an over-dramatic poster for it. Throw any sense of naturalism or unique look out the door. Once you notice it, you see it everywhere. Here's the top live action movies of 2016: Rogue One Cyan and olive: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rogue-One-A-Star-Wars-Story15.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rogue-O... Captain America: Civil War Yellow and red: http://cdn3-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/civil-war-trailer-2-screenshots/cwttss03.jpg http://cdn3-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/civ... Why they felt the need to make Cap's lip rosy red is beyond me. Even better is this shot: http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Captain-America-Civil-War-cast-photo-Renner-Johansson-Evans-Sebastian-Stan.jpg http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/... This is a daylight shot. Look at how the characters are all squinting. Look at the big white fluffly clouds that should be diffusing the light and softening shadows. And yet, magically, all of the shadows are jet black and almost all of the color is gone. The Jungle Book Green and red (to draw attention to Mowgli): https://www.moviedeskback.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The_Jungle_Book_HD_Screencaps-23.png https://www.moviedeskback.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/The... Deadpool Another daylight shot with nonsensical shading: http://turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Deadpool-Movie-Screenshot-Brianna-Hildebrand-Negasonic-Teenage-Warhead-Texting.jpg http://turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dea... The light is clearly diffuse, if you look at the shadows on the ground, and yet there is this deep black everywhere. Deadpool took the look further by only picking one color (red, Deadpool's outfit color) for the entire film. Lest you think this is just an issue with superhero movies, let's ignore those and look at the other top non-superhero movies of 2016: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them More of the same: http://harrypotterfanzone.com/wp-content/2016/09/fantastic-beasts-trailer-screenshot75.png http://harrypotterfanzone.com/wp-content/2016/09/fantastic-b... It also suffers strongly from the "It's a period movie so we're going to sepia tone everything so hard it looks like you're watching the movie through an aquarium full of pee" effect. Hidden Figures https://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hiddenfigures.jpg https://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hidden... More of the period movie sepia along with an improbably jacked up complementary cyan. Star Trek Beyond If the past is warm, the future must be cool: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Star-Trek-Beyond2.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Star-Tr... Blacks, grays and neon cyan, just like Rogue One. Look how unnatural his skin tone is! They wanted to jack up yellow to complement their primary blue so much that the poor dude has jaundice: http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/star-trek-beyond-trailer-cover.jpg http://cdn.wegotthiscovered.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/s... La La Land I'll give this one some credit for varying it up a bit. Also, dramatic spotlit stage lighting is a logical part of the movie's look. But it's still prey to the same cliched look in places: http://henrymollman.com/content/images/2017/01/Screenshot-from-2017-01-18-22-36-49-1.png http://henrymollman.com/content/images/2017/01/Screenshot-fr... Ghostbusters Ectoplasm green and spooky violet were the key colors for the whole film. Secondary colors tend to come across as magical or eerie to viewers since they're different from the safe and familiary primary colors. Of course, jacking up magenta doesn't do flattering things to skin: http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Ghostbusters2.jpg http://www.ramascreen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Ghostbu... Also, what color is Melissa McCarthy's coat? Is it actually black? Who fucking knows. Central Intelligence The traditional comedy look is brightly-lit and saturated, so Central Intelligence didn't fare quite as poorly as the above. Whenever they had a chance to dim the lights, though, they revert to the same cliched look as well: https://i2.wp.com/doblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/centralintelligence2944.jpg https://i2.wp.com/doblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/centr... The Legend of Tarzan http://images3.static-bluray.com/reviews/14209_5.jpg http://images3.static-bluray.com/reviews/14209_5.jpg Jesus, we get it, colorist. They're in the wet jungle. We don't need to be physically assaulted with the colors blue and green to figure that out. ...You get the idea. Go back and watch a movie from before 2000 and you'll quickly realize how much more pleasant to look at most of them where, and how much more variety there was in look. Compare Alien to The Graduate. But it seems like ever since the rise of digital coloring and superhero movies, Hollywood has decided every single fucking movie needs to look like a comic book page, whether it needs it or not. One recent movie I really liked that bucked this trend was Her. It was heavily colorized, but in a way that stood out. In shots like these, even though there's a strong color cast and a lot of dark, there's still always some color and detail in the shadows: https://i1.wp.com/turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Her-Movie-2013-Screenshot-Theodore-Apartment.jpg https://i1.wp.com/turntherightcorner.com/wp-content/uploads/... https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/her-screenshot-14.jpg https://3kpnuxym9k04c8ilz2quku1czd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/w...

the8472 9y ago

https://i.imgur.com/sr1HLwV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/sr1HLwV.jpg comparison image for jurassic world. from top to bottom: 1st trailer, superbowl ad, tv ad from a later date.

bluthru 9y ago
I wonder if color graders have very different taste than I do, or they're pushed by producers to make the image garish.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
Interesting to note that the background changed significantly in each of the shots.