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This is how we do it in NL. We constantly monitor what's behind and to the side of us.

by Jaxan 9y ago

jypepin 9y ago
and for having lived in Amsterdam for 2 years now, I guarantee that the way bikes (and traffic in general) are handled in the Netherlands is far from the safest way! :)
- blunte 9y ago
  But living here myself, I can attest that Dutch drivers are better than US drivers. Perhaps because of better drivers and possibly better cyclists, the chaos that is rush hour cycling results in far fewer accidents than I would expect.
  - jypepin 9y ago
    agreed that in general Europe has better drivers (license is just harder to get) but that doesn't change that it's still very unsafe and not secure :)
    - blunte 9y ago
      One thing that helps is the increasing number of non-car roads (pedestrians and cyclists only). Obviously that's not very friendly to drivers, but a well designed city with good public transport really doesn't need cars in the city.
mstade 9y ago
Do you also stay still while doing this, or do you have to monitor what’s in front as well? If not you’d effectively have to monitor three separate directions all at once. Seems to me it should be safer to block the cycle lane to avoid having traffic pass on the right, so you really only have to monitor in front and to the side when making the turn. Cyclists behind will then simply either have to adjust their speed, or decide whether to cross into the car lane and overtake on the left. This thread made me realize I don’t actually know the rules for this here in Sweden. I’ve inquired with traffic authorities, because unfortunately when searching on their site for cycle lane rules you only find a picture of what cycle lanes look like. :o(
- Symbiote 9y ago
  In Copenhagen, often you have a green light, so you can concentrate on behind. Then check ahead when behind is clear. (You are usually stopped, and if not, no driver behind will be surprised or angry by your stopping to ensure the path is clear.) Don't expect the throughput of an American city road. It's not unusual that only one or two cars can make the turn before the light is red again, if there are lots of bikes.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    This is not true for right turns in the US, when doing a right turn, there could be pedestrians crossing the street as you turn.
- Kirth 9y ago
  > Cyclists behind will then simply either have to adjust their speed, or decide whether to cross into the car lane and overtake on the left. Here's a third option to consider: the cyclist does not notice your merging in to the lane or otherwise fails to react and smashes into the back of your car. At higher speeds this can be lethal.
  - godelski 9y ago
    > At higher speeds this can be lethal. Good thing this is done at low speeds. The car is basically going 0mph, because they are going to turn 90 degrees. And when I'm biking, I am BY FAR more cautious when approaching intersections. As you should be in a car, bike, motorcycle, or whatever.
  - mstade 9y ago
    The merge – or crossing if you will – is going to happen at some point anyway. The point of driving in the cycle lane would be to do the merge first, well in advance of the turn, and once you reach the turn you can safely proceed with the knowledge that you won’t miss a cyclist coming in from behind. (Probably.) If you don’t merge first, you have to not only consider cyclists in the lane but also whatever may be involved with the turn itself, such as people crossing the street you’re turning into, or other obstacles. Basically you spread the risk over time and space instead of concentrating it all into this one maneuver at the end.
clort 9y ago
and I'm pretty sure that one of the touted benefits of self driving cars is that they are able to constantly monitor a whole lot more than a human driver would.

This is how we do it in NL. We constantly monitor what's behind and to the side of us.

by Jaxan 9y ago

This is how we do it in NL. We constantly monitor what's behind and to the side of us.

and for having lived in Amsterdam for 2 years now, I guarantee that the way bikes (and traffic in general) are handled in the Netherlands is far from the safest way! :)

blunte 9y ago
But living here myself, I can attest that Dutch drivers are better than US drivers. Perhaps because of better drivers and possibly better cyclists, the chaos that is rush hour cycling results in far fewer accidents than I would expect.
- jypepin 9y ago
  agreed that in general Europe has better drivers (license is just harder to get) but that doesn't change that it's still very unsafe and not secure :)
  - blunte 9y ago
    One thing that helps is the increasing number of non-car roads (pedestrians and cyclists only). Obviously that's not very friendly to drivers, but a well designed city with good public transport really doesn't need cars in the city.

mstade 9y ago

Do you also stay still while doing this, or do you have to monitor what’s in front as well? If not you’d effectively have to monitor three separate directions all at once. Seems to me it should be safer to block the cycle lane to avoid having traffic pass on the right, so you really only have to monitor in front and to the side when making the turn. Cyclists behind will then simply either have to adjust their speed, or decide whether to cross into the car lane and overtake on the left. This thread made me realize I don’t actually know the rules for this here in Sweden. I’ve inquired with traffic authorities, because unfortunately when searching on their site for cycle lane rules you only find a picture of what cycle lanes look like. :o(

Symbiote 9y ago
In Copenhagen, often you have a green light, so you can concentrate on behind. Then check ahead when behind is clear. (You are usually stopped, and if not, no driver behind will be surprised or angry by your stopping to ensure the path is clear.) Don't expect the throughput of an American city road. It's not unusual that only one or two cars can make the turn before the light is red again, if there are lots of bikes.
- tehlike 9y ago
  This is not true for right turns in the US, when doing a right turn, there could be pedestrians crossing the street as you turn.
Kirth 9y ago
> Cyclists behind will then simply either have to adjust their speed, or decide whether to cross into the car lane and overtake on the left. Here's a third option to consider: the cyclist does not notice your merging in to the lane or otherwise fails to react and smashes into the back of your car. At higher speeds this can be lethal.
- godelski 9y ago
  > At higher speeds this can be lethal. Good thing this is done at low speeds. The car is basically going 0mph, because they are going to turn 90 degrees. And when I'm biking, I am BY FAR more cautious when approaching intersections. As you should be in a car, bike, motorcycle, or whatever.
- mstade 9y ago
  The merge – or crossing if you will – is going to happen at some point anyway. The point of driving in the cycle lane would be to do the merge first, well in advance of the turn, and once you reach the turn you can safely proceed with the knowledge that you won’t miss a cyclist coming in from behind. (Probably.) If you don’t merge first, you have to not only consider cyclists in the lane but also whatever may be involved with the turn itself, such as people crossing the street you’re turning into, or other obstacles. Basically you spread the risk over time and space instead of concentrating it all into this one maneuver at the end.

clort 9y ago

and I'm pretty sure that one of the touted benefits of self driving cars is that they are able to constantly monitor a whole lot more than a human driver would.