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This is what makes me skeptical of the diversity movements in America. In Romania and even Russia it seems women are very well represented in tech and there are

This is what makes me skeptical of the diversity movements in America. In Romania and even Russia it seems women are very well represented in tech and there are no movements there. It seems to me that these movements are mostly used for political maneuvering and are not helpful at all.

pm90 9y ago
Eh, what? Russia still faces a lot of violence and discrimination against women: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-21474931 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-21474931. I'm not sure for the increased participation of women in tech though. Maybe better education? Maybe less of a "computer lovers are all nerds" culture? I honestly don't know.
g09980 9y ago
As someone from Eastern Europe, all of the women (three generations) in my family are/were in scientific/engineering roles and it didn't seem like a big deal 30 years ago or now. It was just the way things are. I have an aunt who knows COBOL. Not being familiar enough with history of this in US/Silicon Valley, want to ask: were things always "unequal", or did things go wrong somewhere along the way?
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Same here - my grandmother was a programmer, and my mother was an electrical engineer.
virgilp 9y ago
I'm from Romania. The general balance is pretty far from 50/50, and there are some not-so-nice jokes about women in CS (e.g. "mamma had 2 girls; one was smart & beautiful, the other one went on to study computer science"). Still, from what I saw (I work in a US company) - I suspect it's far better than US, and maybe even western europe[1]. There's no expectation that if you're a girl you must suck at math (or science/engineering in general), and in general I'd say programmers want/ like to have girls around. But it's still a fairly masculine environment, with some fair level of "bro" culture, so it must be somewhat tougher for a girl. It's double-edged though... the US "positive discrimination" culture is making inroads here, so on some aspects it's easier to be a girl in tech (I suspect it's actually easier to get a job compared to an equally-qualified guy). The thing is - positive discrimination doesn't solve the problem, because it comes from school. You need to encourage girls to take science classes - it has to be expected of them that they do so (rather than go towards, e.g., humanities). That, I don't think is actively happening in the US or even some parts of western europe.... by the time you're dealing with graduates, it's already too late to fix the gender-imbalance problem. [1] My little daughter's godfathers are German (she grew up in Romania, but he didn't). She told me that among german women, it's a thing of pride to be bad at math. And that her daughter was praised in school that "you're pretty good, for a girl". With that sort of attitudes during childhood... it's bound to be hard to get gender balance later (that "praise" would be perceived as insult here)
- simion314 9y ago
  At my University in Timisoara Romania, in my class in pure Mathematics 75% were women, I think the men were attracted more to the computer engineering at the other university but I do not have numbers, anyway girls still loved Math when I was at university 15 years ago
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > There's no expectation that if you're a girl you must suck at math (or science/engineering in general), When I was going to school girls were usually better at math. I remember getting help from them with some calculus problems. My CS teacher in high school was a woman as well and before teaching she worked as a programmer. She was a great role model for girls I'd imagine. Well she was a great role model for me too because she was a great teacher.
ccrmalite 9y ago
There is a big movement in the US! Many organizations akin to girlswhocode.com. However, with the right wing in control right now, there's a real effort to suppress the legitimacy of that movement.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
pavel_lishin 9y ago
What it says to me is that women are just as capable of men in the engineering fields, and America has a unique problem that keeps women out here. So yes, it makes sense to have a movement for diversity here, because something is pushing women out of these fields, so we have to push back.

pm90 9y ago

Eh, what? Russia still faces a lot of violence and discrimination against women: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-21474931 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-21474931. I'm not sure for the increased participation of women in tech though. Maybe better education? Maybe less of a "computer lovers are all nerds" culture? I honestly don't know.

g09980 9y ago

As someone from Eastern Europe, all of the women (three generations) in my family are/were in scientific/engineering roles and it didn't seem like a big deal 30 years ago or now. It was just the way things are. I have an aunt who knows COBOL. Not being familiar enough with history of this in US/Silicon Valley, want to ask: were things always "unequal", or did things go wrong somewhere along the way?

pavel_lishin 9y ago
Same here - my grandmother was a programmer, and my mother was an electrical engineer.

virgilp 9y ago

I'm from Romania. The general balance is pretty far from 50/50, and there are some not-so-nice jokes about women in CS (e.g. "mamma had 2 girls; one was smart & beautiful, the other one went on to study computer science"). Still, from what I saw (I work in a US company) - I suspect it's far better than US, and maybe even western europe[1]. There's no expectation that if you're a girl you must suck at math (or science/engineering in general), and in general I'd say programmers want/ like to have girls around. But it's still a fairly masculine environment, with some fair level of "bro" culture, so it must be somewhat tougher for a girl. It's double-edged though... the US "positive discrimination" culture is making inroads here, so on some aspects it's easier to be a girl in tech (I suspect it's actually easier to get a job compared to an equally-qualified guy). The thing is - positive discrimination doesn't solve the problem, because it comes from school. You need to encourage girls to take science classes - it has to be expected of them that they do so (rather than go towards, e.g., humanities). That, I don't think is actively happening in the US or even some parts of western europe.... by the time you're dealing with graduates, it's already too late to fix the gender-imbalance problem. [1] My little daughter's godfathers are German (she grew up in Romania, but he didn't). She told me that among german women, it's a thing of pride to be bad at math. And that her daughter was praised in school that "you're pretty good, for a girl". With that sort of attitudes during childhood... it's bound to be hard to get gender balance later (that "praise" would be perceived as insult here)

simion314 9y ago
At my University in Timisoara Romania, in my class in pure Mathematics 75% were women, I think the men were attracted more to the computer engineering at the other university but I do not have numbers, anyway girls still loved Math when I was at university 15 years ago
rdtsc 9y ago
> There's no expectation that if you're a girl you must suck at math (or science/engineering in general), When I was going to school girls were usually better at math. I remember getting help from them with some calculus problems. My CS teacher in high school was a woman as well and before teaching she worked as a programmer. She was a great role model for girls I'd imagine. Well she was a great role model for me too because she was a great teacher.

ccrmalite 9y ago

There is a big movement in the US! Many organizations akin to girlswhocode.com. However, with the right wing in control right now, there's a real effort to suppress the legitimacy of that movement.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

pavel_lishin 9y ago

What it says to me is that women are just as capable of men in the engineering fields, and America has a unique problem that keeps women out here. So yes, it makes sense to have a movement for diversity here, because something is pushing women out of these fields, so we have to push back.