5 ms·

Um, congrats on his success solving a big problem, but... it took him twenty years to figure out how to flick a switch from a mile away? Has anybody shown him

Um, congrats on his success solving a big problem, but... it took him twenty years to figure out how to flick a switch from a mile away? Has anybody shown him these things? http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg For that matter, is it so hard to run a mile of wire across a field?

chime 16y ago
> Has anybody shown him these things? http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg The article did mention a simple timer. I'm going to guess there is some additional complexity in turning on the water that a multi-mode timer cannot handle. Timer comes on at 2am and shuts off at 3am automatically but what happens when there is a power failure between 2.10am and 2.50am? That happens in India ALL the time. Now you missed 40 minutes of watering. A human might be able to take that into account by turning it off at 3.30am instead remotely. > For that matter, is it so hard to run a mile of wire across a field? Not hard, just expensive. The Indian farmers he's aiming to help are the ones making $1-$5/day. They might understand the long-term ROI on such an investment but they might not be able to afford it.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  If the power fails they'll come on at the wrong time. Of course the pumps will not be able to run when there is no power but it might be less than ideal to run the pumps at the wrong time. That said, you could solve that fairly easily by running the timer circuitry off a rechargeable battery and drive the pumps through a relay. When there's power the battery recharges from the grid, when the power has failed for a while the timer hasn't lost track of the time of day. I wonder how much an SMS message costs an indian farmer (it also requires an extra cell phone), it might very well be a substantial part of the cost of operation. In the end it's a convenience thing (you don't have to walk) which is worth some $ or it would have to save money or create a better yield.
  - kranner 16y ago
    SMS is cheap in India. You can get plans with upto 500 messages a day for 99 rupees a month.
    - maheshs 16y ago
      99 rupees = $2
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        Someone should let Neelie Smit-Kroes in on that little secret.
        Setsuna 16y ago
        why?
        jacquesm 16y ago
        Because it's at least an order of magnitude more than what you'd pay in Europe for the same thing which is a good indicator that there is price fixing involved.
        kranner 16y ago
        Are you sure? 500 messages a day costs < $0.07 total. It's cheaper than that in Europe?
        jacquesm 16y ago
        No, rather the opposite.
        Setsuna 16y ago
        According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS The key idea for SMS was to use this telephony-optimized system, and to transport messages on the signaling paths needed to control the telephony traffic during time periods when no signaling traffic existed. In this way, unused resources in the system could be used to transport messages at minimal cost. So, in a sense sending SMS doesn't have to be so costly.
kranner 16y ago
"so hard to run a mile of wire across a field?" It's hard to keep that mile of wire from being pinched. I remember how the highway authority here in Punjab had embedded blinking lights into the road's surface, over some stretches of road, to help drivers during our foggy winters. A few days after the lights went in, they were dug out and stolen. So new ones were put in. Gone again. New lights. Gone again. Finally the highway authority gave up and left the citizenry to its fate.
- sanjayb 16y ago
  once a bus-stop was stolen. http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/oct/151008-Borivali-bus-stop.htm http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/oct/151008-Borivali-bus-sto... . wire - hrmph ...
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Wire - sometimes even high voltage cabling - is stolen all over Europe (and probably the world) for the copper. Not a few accidents happen with people trying to steal a live wire. http://www.google.com/search?q=cable+thieves+electrocuted http://www.google.com/search?q=cable+thieves+electrocuted
- meric 16y ago
  When I was in a small city in China visiting my relatives, they pointed at some of the 50cm by 50cm "drains" on the street gutter filled with shattered stones. In the beginning, they had metal guards but they kept getting stolen. Then they had concrete guards with a metal wire skeleton. Those covers got smashed and the metal wires taken out of them. Now they just have concrete guards but people smash them anyway.
- RodgerTheGreat 16y ago
  This may be an overly simplistic approach, but if you're worried about something in a fixed position getting stolen, isn't it easy to stake the location out for a day or two and nab your thief? Even if it's a systemic problem, making an example of a few criminals should discourage others from stealing.
cubicle67 16y ago
The comment from Anandshree seems to answer that: I am making a comment based on the irrigation needs of an Indian farmer in Indian scenario. I think, the mobile based solution is best for the Indian farmers who want to monitor and switch on off their pumpset from wherever they are, maybe in the farms, residence, market or on travel. In the timers, there is no monitoring of whether a pump is on or off, whether a power is available or not at the pump.But, the mobile connectivity makes it is possible to check the status. Plus , in the agriculture, there might be needs of so many times of on/off of the pumps in the irrigation processes depending on the actual physical status in the farms activities. Hence, it needs a perfect engineering solution based on closed loop system rather than an open loop systems like timers.A perfect engineering solves the problems in an emerging market very much effectively, but for that someone must undestand the needs of an emerging market and for which there is only a way - to be among them and to understand their needs. No question of blaming anybody's situation or no question of contraversy about Indian or Non Indian should arise, but a real attitude to help a human being in the problems is a must.

chime 16y ago

> Has anybody shown him these things? http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg http://www.electronicplus.com/images/products/TN811C.jpg The article did mention a simple timer. I'm going to guess there is some additional complexity in turning on the water that a multi-mode timer cannot handle. Timer comes on at 2am and shuts off at 3am automatically but what happens when there is a power failure between 2.10am and 2.50am? That happens in India ALL the time. Now you missed 40 minutes of watering. A human might be able to take that into account by turning it off at 3.30am instead remotely. > For that matter, is it so hard to run a mile of wire across a field? Not hard, just expensive. The Indian farmers he's aiming to help are the ones making $1-$5/day. They might understand the long-term ROI on such an investment but they might not be able to afford it.

jacquesm 16y ago
If the power fails they'll come on at the wrong time. Of course the pumps will not be able to run when there is no power but it might be less than ideal to run the pumps at the wrong time. That said, you could solve that fairly easily by running the timer circuitry off a rechargeable battery and drive the pumps through a relay. When there's power the battery recharges from the grid, when the power has failed for a while the timer hasn't lost track of the time of day. I wonder how much an SMS message costs an indian farmer (it also requires an extra cell phone), it might very well be a substantial part of the cost of operation. In the end it's a convenience thing (you don't have to walk) which is worth some $ or it would have to save money or create a better yield.
- kranner 16y ago
  SMS is cheap in India. You can get plans with upto 500 messages a day for 99 rupees a month.
  - maheshs 16y ago
    99 rupees = $2
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      Someone should let Neelie Smit-Kroes in on that little secret.
      - Setsuna 16y ago
        why?
        jacquesm 16y ago
        Because it's at least an order of magnitude more than what you'd pay in Europe for the same thing which is a good indicator that there is price fixing involved.
        kranner 16y ago
        Are you sure? 500 messages a day costs < $0.07 total. It's cheaper than that in Europe?
        jacquesm 16y ago
        No, rather the opposite.
        Setsuna 16y ago
        According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS The key idea for SMS was to use this telephony-optimized system, and to transport messages on the signaling paths needed to control the telephony traffic during time periods when no signaling traffic existed. In this way, unused resources in the system could be used to transport messages at minimal cost. So, in a sense sending SMS doesn't have to be so costly.

kranner 16y ago

"so hard to run a mile of wire across a field?" It's hard to keep that mile of wire from being pinched. I remember how the highway authority here in Punjab had embedded blinking lights into the road's surface, over some stretches of road, to help drivers during our foggy winters. A few days after the lights went in, they were dug out and stolen. So new ones were put in. Gone again. New lights. Gone again. Finally the highway authority gave up and left the citizenry to its fate.

sanjayb 16y ago
once a bus-stop was stolen. http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/oct/151008-Borivali-bus-stop.htm http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/oct/151008-Borivali-bus-sto... . wire - hrmph ...
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
jacquesm 16y ago
Wire - sometimes even high voltage cabling - is stolen all over Europe (and probably the world) for the copper. Not a few accidents happen with people trying to steal a live wire. http://www.google.com/search?q=cable+thieves+electrocuted http://www.google.com/search?q=cable+thieves+electrocuted
meric 16y ago
When I was in a small city in China visiting my relatives, they pointed at some of the 50cm by 50cm "drains" on the street gutter filled with shattered stones. In the beginning, they had metal guards but they kept getting stolen. Then they had concrete guards with a metal wire skeleton. Those covers got smashed and the metal wires taken out of them. Now they just have concrete guards but people smash them anyway.
RodgerTheGreat 16y ago
This may be an overly simplistic approach, but if you're worried about something in a fixed position getting stolen, isn't it easy to stake the location out for a day or two and nab your thief? Even if it's a systemic problem, making an example of a few criminals should discourage others from stealing.

cubicle67 16y ago

The comment from Anandshree seems to answer that: I am making a comment based on the irrigation needs of an Indian farmer in Indian scenario. I think, the mobile based solution is best for the Indian farmers who want to monitor and switch on off their pumpset from wherever they are, maybe in the farms, residence, market or on travel. In the timers, there is no monitoring of whether a pump is on or off, whether a power is available or not at the pump.But, the mobile connectivity makes it is possible to check the status. Plus , in the agriculture, there might be needs of so many times of on/off of the pumps in the irrigation processes depending on the actual physical status in the farms activities. Hence, it needs a perfect engineering solution based on closed loop system rather than an open loop systems like timers.A perfect engineering solves the problems in an emerging market very much effectively, but for that someone must undestand the needs of an emerging market and for which there is only a way - to be among them and to understand their needs. No question of blaming anybody's situation or no question of contraversy about Indian or Non Indian should arise, but a real attitude to help a human being in the problems is a must.