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Can You Think Yourself into a Different Person? (2015)
- dang 9y agoUrl changed from https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neuroplasticity_us_564cdeefe4b00b7997f8d10e https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neuroplasticity_us_564c..., which points to this. Discussion from 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10587031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10587031
- danharaj 9y agoOne thing that I've come to appreciate in adulthood is to what extent conscious, verbal thought can change the way I think. The answer at first seemed "not very much" which frustrated me and stymied my ability to pick up new things or deal with maladaptive behaviors. I thought it was just my brain getting older, but I've since realized that I'm still quite plastic, it's just a more implicit process than I figured and being consciously preoccupied with it is counterproductive. It feels more like changing the momentum of a rolling boulder, or the moon tugging on the ocean to make tides. Understanding that the part of me that I feel I have most control over plays a limited if crucial role in what I become has made life a bit less stressful and my thinking a bit more effective.
- RobertRoberts 9y agoI find this both encouraging and poetic. :)
- fpoling 9y agoFor me attempts at meditation when one tries to shutdown verbal thoughts for some time were extremely revealing. I realized how "rational thought" has very little with defining myself and how much time is required indeed to change something that I do not like about myself.
- RobertRoberts 9y agoI think you can. I changed the very dynamic of my family by changing myself. I grew up with a snippy and grouchy mother, and so I was a snippy and grouchy parent. But when I saw my kids treating eachother poorly for far too long, and nothing I did fixed anything. I changed my tactics completely. I stopped being grouchy and snippy. Or at least at first I stopped expressing myself this way to them. I was determined to end this trend, no matter what. After a few months (literally) of me not raising my voice, unless it was totally and completely justified (which I discovered was very rare) I could then say to my kids (and wife), I expect you to talk nice and decently to eachother, and as soon as they accused me of being grouchy, I pointed out that I hadn't been for months, and something changed, everyone started to listen to me, even when I talked quietly. I've become a morning person, I started jogging about 5 years ago (I hated exercise), I stopped eating white sugar in 1995 (because it was controlling me like a narcotic), and I have worked on many of my other bad habits and traits. I think anyone can change anything. And I really like reading about other people's successes in self change as well. Everything from quitting smoking, losing weight, success in work and relationships brought back from the brink of destruction. We just need enough of a reason to do something, and then we can do it. The trick seems to be, can you make up your own reasons? I know we can. (also I defeated crippling life long depression, food addictions, weight loss, and few other things many people want to label "diseases" we have no cure for or control over, I call bologna on that, we can change anything.)
- mtpn 9y ago> I call bologna on that, we can change anything. Please be cautious about making such statements. I respect your experience and success at changing things for yourself with this model. I don't for a second doubt your sincerity. But the belief that a depressed/addicted person could get better if they just tried harder is part of a very dangerous feedback loop when you are down. You can't control everything you experience or the feelings you have. You can, sometimes, control your interpretation and response to those things, if you are careful. You can do everything right and still not be able to break the cycle. We're all different, I'm glad this worked for you but it doesn't necessarily follow that your approach would help others.
- fao_ 9y agoExactly this. It especially applies to people who cope with self-worth problems. The "Just try harder" becomes "I can do it, why can't you", which becomes "You can't do it because of X", which over time morphs into "You can't do it because you're worthless". Of course, because those thought-patterns increases stress and self-burden, this can lead to never-ending cycles where the person is literally rendered incapable of breaking out of the cycle.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago"self worth" problems are lie foisted on you. You value yourself more than anyone else, and I can prove it. How much time and money do you spend taking care of yourself vs taking care of other people? How much time do you spend thinking about your own problems vs other people's problems. One of the first things I considered that changed my life was to worry about other people more than myself. If you do that, it's not possible to be depressed. If you try this and it doesn't work, keep worrying about other people more than yourself until it does. Depression is a recursive self sadness. No one I have ever met, heard of or read about was truly depressed because of other people's problems.
- mauritzio 9y agoSorry but mental health issues like depression are related to chemical dysfunctions. Would you say when your eyes become bad just try harder and work on yourself, I suppose you probably just buy glasses. Just because you found something out about yourself in a limited area, it doesn't mean it applies to everybody and anything. Maybe you could start and try to work on beeing humble ;)
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- otakucode 9y agoHow else could anyone ever possibly develop or change? It seems a ludicrous question. If you expend effort on thinking about your actions, you will take different actions. The actions you take determine the person you are.
- RobertRoberts 9y agoMaybe for the author it is purely and academic one, where for everyone else it's a life changing one? (no pun-like structure implied)
- SteveCoast 9y agoI've done neurofeedback and have the hardware. It's amazing what you can achieve. It's amazing it works at all. There's a decent book on the popular history of it - 'a symphony in the brain' I think it's called.
- relyks 9y agoWhat do you use for hardware? How did you get into it? I've been investigating doing it for myself
- YaxelPerez 9y agoI'm pretty sure it's just an EEG. The OpenEEG project is a good resource imo: http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/hw/ http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/hw/
- SteveCoast 9y agoI went here in LA - peakbraininstitute.com Drop me an email if you want to hear more.
- projectramo 9y agoThere is a large difference between the claim that: 1. One changes and 2. One can purposefully change in particular direction While the former is (I believe) obviously true, the second may not be. While I don't doubt brains change, the question is, can we purposefully change it in a particular manner to achieve a particular end. The article spends a lot of time talking about neuroplasticity which addresses the first claim, but not the second.
- 0xcde4c3db 9y agoThere's a similarly large gap between: 1. One can purposely modulate some particular functions of the brain and 2. One can purposely modulate all functions of the brain
- RobertRoberts 9y agoThese seem like generalities of "change" which may not apply in reality. For example, your goal is to quit smoking, a specific change in a particular direction. If you don't achieve the quitting, did you actually change? If you did, didn't you affect the change in a particular direction?
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- sendos 9y agoA very poignant if cynical poem by the Greek poet Kavafis on this topic: You said: “I’ll go to another country, go to another shore, find another city better than this one. Whatever I try to do is fated to turn out wrong and my heart lies buried as though it were something dead. How long can I let my mind moulder in this place? Wherever I turn, wherever I happen to look, I see the black ruins of my life, here, where I’ve spent so many years, wasted them, destroyed them totally.” You won’t find a new country, won’t find another shore. This city will always pursue you. You will walk the same streets, grow old in the same neighborhoods, will turn gray in these same houses. You will always end up in this city. Don’t hope for things elsewhere: there is no ship for you, there is no road. As you’ve wasted your life here, in this small corner, you’ve destroyed it everywhere else in the world.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago:( Is there no hope for anyone?
- brodo 9y agoI can tell from personal experience that if you change your environment and have new experiences, you will also change. Changing a big part of your life (job, location, relationships) makes it easier and sometimes necessary to also change your behaviour. Changing your behaviour in a big way also means to change your personality. However, if you're the kind of person who moves a lot, you're not really changing anything when you move. It's about doing scary things you've never done before.
- hliyan 9y agoRecently, I've discarded all 'principle-based' attempts at self-improvement and replaced it with a single approach: I start with "The human mind is a neural network, therefore..." I find that most changes are a matter of the size and strength of the training dataset. Either you have to go through a lot of repetition, or a few incidents immediately followed by major negative or positive reinforcements. It works.
- wz1000 9y agoNeural networks as are trendy in ML today have little or nothing to do with the neurons in the human brain.
- happycube 9y agoYup... I'm increasingly thinking of them as matrix machines. Pity the movies redefined that word to the general public ;)
- RobertRoberts 9y agoWell I think that's great. I agree that where the rubber hits the road, it's a simple decision, left or right, up or down, yes or no. All problems come down to a binary point in time if you distil the effects and events down enough. Making the decision that will change your course or keep it the same isn't physically easy, which is why I think so many people get emotional over this discussion.
- thrownaway577 9y ago.
- vbuwivbiu 9y agoMove to a new city in a different country and get a new network of friends and you'll change
- swayvil 9y agoI changed myself. I cured my aspergers, more or less. I did it with meditation.
- mercer 9y agoCould you tell some more about that? I've had some positive experience with meditation, but I'd really like to hear how it helped you.
- swayvil 9y agoMy awareness used to be like a clenched fist. I used to be like a clenched fist. Focused and concentrated all the time. Always obsessed. Always in my head. Disconnected from everything. Now my awareness is like an open hand, fingers spread. I see a lot of stuff that was invisible to me before. My world is bigger. I am out of my head. I'm not saying its perfect. And obsession calls like a siren. But you could say that I am aware of the options now, and can choose intelligently, where before I was only aware of one option and called it reality. The technique that I use is what the Buddhists call Vipassana.
- somberi 9y ago"Either seem as you are or be as you seem."(Rumi) On the other hand works of Paul Ekman and others have shown that consciously and wilfully changing facial muscles changes the emotional state of mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ekman
- jordansmithnz 9y agoA few years back I read a book on neuroplasticity. It was a great read, although possibly aimed slightly above my knowledge on the subject (zero). From memory, this was what I took away: • you can change the way you think. It takes a lot of effort, time, and motivation - but it’s within reach. Small improvements lead to bigger ones over time. • diet, excersize and good sleep are all involved. You can’t eat junk food, sleep poorly, and expect to see much of a difference. • making good decisions is a large part of the process. Eat well. Sleep well. Put yourself in the right situations. Don’t put yourself in the wrong ones. If you’re afraid of speaking in public, speak in public. If you need to be more organised, buy a planner (app?) that will help you with your organisation. Etc To me, a lot of it seemed to be grounded in common sense. Seems to be well regarded/reviewed too, for anyone interested: https://www.amazon.com/Rewire-Your-Brain-Think-Better/dp/0470487291 https://www.amazon.com/Rewire-Your-Brain-Think-Better/dp/047...
- Spearchucker 9y agoEverything I've ever wanted, I got. Whether a first new car, stopping smoking, gaining weight, losing weight, being the guy that everyone likes... I just needed to want it enough.
- neuralzen 9y agoThis is in essence what Vajrayana buddhism uses as its locus. Instead of seeking to destroy desires, as early Buddhist traditions do by working on breaking them apart and inspecting them, reductio ad absurdum, they seek instead to reshape desire to become a vehicle itself to enlightenment. There are intense and lengthy practices which aim to slowly shift the way the practitioner thinks and perceives, to be more aligned with an 'enlightened' perspective, and therefore shift into that modality, and eventually have insight.
- neuralzen 9y agoShort video describing this process in Zen: https://youtu.be/Q_VizlDWcTA https://youtu.be/Q_VizlDWcTA
- justinpombrio 9y agoThere's an anime on this topic: Haibane Remnei.