5 ms·

This is what I call the Mediocre Mercenary Mentality, this idea that "as long as we can make money off of it, it's good enough". This mentality is the reason w

This is what I call the Mediocre Mercenary Mentality, this idea that "as long as we can make money off of it, it's good enough". This mentality is the reason why sometimes -- but not always! -- my phone won't play music in my car until I restart the _car_. This mentality is why game development companies get away with charging full price for unfinished, bug-ridden games with crippled features and missing content. This mentality is the reason why I couldn't see my credit card in the list of my accounts on my credit union's online banking site for several days. This mentality is why Experian and Equifax don't report the same credit score for me. This mentality is why I feel ashamed every time a receptionist apologizes for the wait, because they "have been having problems with the system." Most importantly, this mentality is why I have to worry about whether someone will steal my identity because people keep writing shitty code on top of shitty code and my personal information keeps getting leaked. When I'm so disgusted by my own profession, no wonder I ended up burned out.

dpc59 9y ago
We have an economic system where we reward maximizing short term financial gain. As long as that doesn't change companies will try to sell the crappiest shit they can sell you for the most money.
- SpEd3Y 9y ago
  I think this is more than just the economic system. If you look at people in general, we live in the age of instant gratification. We want everything fast! Nobody is willing to put in the work and get the reward after a longer period of time... No! We want results now! We don't want to wait for the food to be properly cooked, we want it now, so we go for fast food. We don't want to put in 1 year of work to learn something new so we can feel that we achieved something, we want it now, so we play a game where we can 'win' in 30 minutes. We don't want to build a relationship and eventually end up being intimate, we want it now, so we go for 'one night stands'. Then you ask yourself... is it weird that the economic system works the same? That the software industry works the same? :/
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    I don't think the phenomenon you described, as some new thing specific to this age, is in any way real. If anything, the things you mention only reflect the new choices we have. Going over your individual examples: > We don't want to wait for the food to be properly cooked, we want it now, so we go for fast food. We go for fast food because it saves time. When I opt to order in instead of going out for lunch, or grab a burger from McDonald's en route, I do that because eating is mostly instrumental. I don't want to eat at that point, I have to, and the sooner I can fill myself up, the sooner I can get back to doing the things I actually care about. Fast food, and food delivery services, allow people to choose to spend more time on other things, when those other things are more important to them. The same people will enjoy a finely cooked meal on a different occasion, when they prioritize it. > We don't want to put in 1 year of work to learn something new so we can feel that we achieved something, we want it now, so we play a game where we can 'win' in 30 minutes. Spending a year on learning something to just get a quick feeling of achievement is a very stupid way to go about it. Videogames are better for that. Learning is better for getting long-term feelings of achievement, and to actually gain knowledge/skills that you can use for something. And again, it's not something new - our generation wastes time on videogames, previous generations wasted time playing soccer, cards, darts, and doing tons of other quick-reward activities. > We don't want to build a relationship and eventually end up being intimate, we want it now, so we go for 'one night stands'. One-night stands exist for as long as humans are humans. Nothing fundamental changed, only the hookup methods evolved with population density and available communication tools. -- > Then you ask yourself... is it weird that the economic system works the same? That the software industry works the same? Nah, they don't work the same. In them, the actors are not driven internally, they're driven externally. People write shitty software, or sell shitty products, not because of their need for instant gratification, but because of market pressures. A fast hack sold by your marketing team can be a difference between you getting $100M contract versus not getting it, or getting your product on the market first versus a week after your competitor. Market economy, because of all its efficiency, is what creates the culture of suck.
  - dorgo 9y ago
    You say it like is a bad thing. If I compare two service/products/relationships/experiences which are equal in all but one attribute: delivery time, guess which I will choose.. Delivery time is an important attribtue and reduces (subjective) risk of no delivery. And delivery time is an attribute which is measurable. In comparison it is hard to measure how bug free a peace of software is, or how healthy food is, or how successfull your relationship will be, or how good you can learn this new skill in a year.
- kindatrue 9y ago
  In b-school Profit=Revenue-Expense was drilled in over and over again. It's so obvious. But until you realllllly sit down and internalize it... then you can be at peace with the shitty service of Comcast, etc. In other words: Don't hate the player, hate the game.
jventura 9y ago
> This mentality is the reason why... The way I see the post you're replying to is either you learn to cope with these things or you'll burn out faster. Since there's no accountability, if you want to do things the right way, you'll have to do it by yourself and be prepared to swim against the tide..
woolvalley 9y ago
I have this saying that most software is tent software. Nothing wrong with tents, music festivals are built on tents for example. They are cheap, quick to put up and put down and can do a lot! You just have realize that most software buildings are tents, and there are a few buildings that you can use out there.
- flukus 9y ago
  Tents are usually temporary though, software rarely is.
vsc 9y ago
You have been able to put to words the feeling that I have had for such a long time. Thanks. I don't know if the world is getting a shittier place. But it surely is getting less reliable.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  > I don't know if the world is getting a shittier place. But it surely is getting less reliable. It is, because everything is being optimized into literal minimum viable products. That's how competitive markets work - whatever aspect of your product or business you can cut out to save money and thus get ahead of your competitors, you will cut out, and then your competitors will cut it out too, in order not to get outcompeted by you. This race-to-the-bottom phenomenon is fundamental to how competition works, and the result is that products gradually lose quality. It's the reason why your grandfather's washing machine probably works 'till this day, while you have to fix your new one every year, and will probably replace it in five years. "Building to last" is a good example of a quality that the market economy optimized out over time across pretty much all products in all sectors.
  - Rescis 9y ago
    > It's the reason why your grandfather's washing machine probably works 'till this day, while you have to fix your new one every year, and will probably replace it in five years. Adjusting the cost of each product with inflation, things really are built like they used to be. Your grandfathers washing machine both cost far more than a current model* (again, adjusted for inflation), and all of the poorly built old washing machines broke and no on sees/thinks about them anymore. * I am having trouble finding a source on washing machines specifically, however I'm assuming they followed the same trends as most commodities tracked by BLS: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ap https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ap As questionable as citing Reddit is, this post rather well encompasses what I am trying to get at: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/4kn8ku/the_only_reason_why_we_think_things_were_built_to/d3gtfbt/?st=jbicihs9&sh=2826402c https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/4kn8ku/the_...
JKCalhoun 9y ago
> When I'm so disgusted by my own profession, no wonder I ended up burned out. Ha ha, maybe this is why they don't want older engineers. They're wise, cynical, bitter, skeptical and not likely to suffer bullshit management.
echolot 9y ago
It sounds like you'd burn out in any profession. Perfect is the enemy of the good. If you're holding your work, and that of others', to a perfectionist's standard, then you're just causing yourself unnecessary stress and anxiety. Most of those bugs and failures you listed are really inconsequential in their contexts. Car won't play your phone's music? Use the radio. Game has bugs? Play another game until it's patched, or find inventive ways to use the bug. Can't see your CC? You can still charge on it and pay its balance. Experian and Equifax don't report same credit score? Your creditors aren't reporting to every credit bureau. Ashamed that someone else's system doesn't work? I can't help you there. That's some deep psychological issue. About 10 years ago I came to understand that mediocre runs the world. All these people, who are your bosses, who are getting raises and promotions, they're the B/C students from college. They don't care about perfect. They really only care about finishing what they're assigned and going on with their outside life. If you want perfect, do it on your own time.
- CodeMage 9y ago
  > Most of those bugs and failures you listed are really inconsequential in their contexts. Yes, I expect that for most things we could find a context that could render them inconsequential. > Car won't play your phone's music? Use the radio. Game has bugs? Play another game until it's patched, or find inventive ways to use the bug. Can't see your CC? You can still charge on it and pay its balance. Experian and Equifax don't report same credit score? Your creditors aren't reporting to every credit bureau. Elevator doesn't work? Use the stairs. Public restroom is filthy? Hold your breath and don't touch anything. Lost a tooth on the right side of your mouth because of an incompetent endodontist? Chew on the left side. I'm not being facetious here. I really do agree that almost anything is tolerable if we decide to. That last example is from personal experience: I have lost three teeth on the right side of my mouth and I have to chew on the left. Most of the time, I don't even think about it anymore. And it really isn't that big of a deal -- it doesn't have a very significant impact on the quality of my life. > Ashamed that someone else's system doesn't work? I can't help you there. That's some deep psychological issue. It could be. Like I commented elsewhere, I would expect a doctor to be ashamed of Andrew Wakefield, but maybe most of them aren't. And even if they are, it could be a deep psychological issue that I choose to compare the state of our industry to what Wakefield did in his. But here's the thing: I know that we can do better. Not perfect, better. But we don't have to, because we lack accountability. Sure, perfect is the enemy of the good. But complacency is the last refuge of the mediocre.
heedlessly2 9y ago
>This mentality is why I feel ashamed every time a receptionist apologizes for the wait why would you feel ashamed for waiting a little longer? that's an odd thing to be insecure about
- triangleman 9y ago
  Because the guy works on computers for a living.
- CodeMage 9y ago
  I'm not ashamed for waiting longer. I'm ashamed for the same reason I would expect doctors to feel ashamed about Andrew Wakefield.

dpc59 9y ago

We have an economic system where we reward maximizing short term financial gain. As long as that doesn't change companies will try to sell the crappiest shit they can sell you for the most money.

SpEd3Y 9y ago
I think this is more than just the economic system. If you look at people in general, we live in the age of instant gratification. We want everything fast! Nobody is willing to put in the work and get the reward after a longer period of time... No! We want results now! We don't want to wait for the food to be properly cooked, we want it now, so we go for fast food. We don't want to put in 1 year of work to learn something new so we can feel that we achieved something, we want it now, so we play a game where we can 'win' in 30 minutes. We don't want to build a relationship and eventually end up being intimate, we want it now, so we go for 'one night stands'. Then you ask yourself... is it weird that the economic system works the same? That the software industry works the same? :/
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  I don't think the phenomenon you described, as some new thing specific to this age, is in any way real. If anything, the things you mention only reflect the new choices we have. Going over your individual examples: > We don't want to wait for the food to be properly cooked, we want it now, so we go for fast food. We go for fast food because it saves time. When I opt to order in instead of going out for lunch, or grab a burger from McDonald's en route, I do that because eating is mostly instrumental. I don't want to eat at that point, I have to, and the sooner I can fill myself up, the sooner I can get back to doing the things I actually care about. Fast food, and food delivery services, allow people to choose to spend more time on other things, when those other things are more important to them. The same people will enjoy a finely cooked meal on a different occasion, when they prioritize it. > We don't want to put in 1 year of work to learn something new so we can feel that we achieved something, we want it now, so we play a game where we can 'win' in 30 minutes. Spending a year on learning something to just get a quick feeling of achievement is a very stupid way to go about it. Videogames are better for that. Learning is better for getting long-term feelings of achievement, and to actually gain knowledge/skills that you can use for something. And again, it's not something new - our generation wastes time on videogames, previous generations wasted time playing soccer, cards, darts, and doing tons of other quick-reward activities. > We don't want to build a relationship and eventually end up being intimate, we want it now, so we go for 'one night stands'. One-night stands exist for as long as humans are humans. Nothing fundamental changed, only the hookup methods evolved with population density and available communication tools. -- > Then you ask yourself... is it weird that the economic system works the same? That the software industry works the same? Nah, they don't work the same. In them, the actors are not driven internally, they're driven externally. People write shitty software, or sell shitty products, not because of their need for instant gratification, but because of market pressures. A fast hack sold by your marketing team can be a difference between you getting $100M contract versus not getting it, or getting your product on the market first versus a week after your competitor. Market economy, because of all its efficiency, is what creates the culture of suck.
- dorgo 9y ago
  You say it like is a bad thing. If I compare two service/products/relationships/experiences which are equal in all but one attribute: delivery time, guess which I will choose.. Delivery time is an important attribtue and reduces (subjective) risk of no delivery. And delivery time is an attribute which is measurable. In comparison it is hard to measure how bug free a peace of software is, or how healthy food is, or how successfull your relationship will be, or how good you can learn this new skill in a year.
kindatrue 9y ago
In b-school Profit=Revenue-Expense was drilled in over and over again. It's so obvious. But until you realllllly sit down and internalize it... then you can be at peace with the shitty service of Comcast, etc. In other words: Don't hate the player, hate the game.

jventura 9y ago

> This mentality is the reason why... The way I see the post you're replying to is either you learn to cope with these things or you'll burn out faster. Since there's no accountability, if you want to do things the right way, you'll have to do it by yourself and be prepared to swim against the tide..

woolvalley 9y ago

I have this saying that most software is tent software. Nothing wrong with tents, music festivals are built on tents for example. They are cheap, quick to put up and put down and can do a lot! You just have realize that most software buildings are tents, and there are a few buildings that you can use out there.

flukus 9y ago
Tents are usually temporary though, software rarely is.

vsc 9y ago

You have been able to put to words the feeling that I have had for such a long time. Thanks. I don't know if the world is getting a shittier place. But it surely is getting less reliable.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
> I don't know if the world is getting a shittier place. But it surely is getting less reliable. It is, because everything is being optimized into literal minimum viable products. That's how competitive markets work - whatever aspect of your product or business you can cut out to save money and thus get ahead of your competitors, you will cut out, and then your competitors will cut it out too, in order not to get outcompeted by you. This race-to-the-bottom phenomenon is fundamental to how competition works, and the result is that products gradually lose quality. It's the reason why your grandfather's washing machine probably works 'till this day, while you have to fix your new one every year, and will probably replace it in five years. "Building to last" is a good example of a quality that the market economy optimized out over time across pretty much all products in all sectors.
- Rescis 9y ago
  > It's the reason why your grandfather's washing machine probably works 'till this day, while you have to fix your new one every year, and will probably replace it in five years. Adjusting the cost of each product with inflation, things really are built like they used to be. Your grandfathers washing machine both cost far more than a current model* (again, adjusted for inflation), and all of the poorly built old washing machines broke and no on sees/thinks about them anymore. * I am having trouble finding a source on washing machines specifically, however I'm assuming they followed the same trends as most commodities tracked by BLS: https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ap https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ap As questionable as citing Reddit is, this post rather well encompasses what I am trying to get at: https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/4kn8ku/the_only_reason_why_we_think_things_were_built_to/d3gtfbt/?st=jbicihs9&sh=2826402c https://www.reddit.com/r/Showerthoughts/comments/4kn8ku/the_...

JKCalhoun 9y ago

> When I'm so disgusted by my own profession, no wonder I ended up burned out. Ha ha, maybe this is why they don't want older engineers. They're wise, cynical, bitter, skeptical and not likely to suffer bullshit management.

echolot 9y ago

It sounds like you'd burn out in any profession. Perfect is the enemy of the good. If you're holding your work, and that of others', to a perfectionist's standard, then you're just causing yourself unnecessary stress and anxiety. Most of those bugs and failures you listed are really inconsequential in their contexts. Car won't play your phone's music? Use the radio. Game has bugs? Play another game until it's patched, or find inventive ways to use the bug. Can't see your CC? You can still charge on it and pay its balance. Experian and Equifax don't report same credit score? Your creditors aren't reporting to every credit bureau. Ashamed that someone else's system doesn't work? I can't help you there. That's some deep psychological issue. About 10 years ago I came to understand that mediocre runs the world. All these people, who are your bosses, who are getting raises and promotions, they're the B/C students from college. They don't care about perfect. They really only care about finishing what they're assigned and going on with their outside life. If you want perfect, do it on your own time.

CodeMage 9y ago
> Most of those bugs and failures you listed are really inconsequential in their contexts. Yes, I expect that for most things we could find a context that could render them inconsequential. > Car won't play your phone's music? Use the radio. Game has bugs? Play another game until it's patched, or find inventive ways to use the bug. Can't see your CC? You can still charge on it and pay its balance. Experian and Equifax don't report same credit score? Your creditors aren't reporting to every credit bureau. Elevator doesn't work? Use the stairs. Public restroom is filthy? Hold your breath and don't touch anything. Lost a tooth on the right side of your mouth because of an incompetent endodontist? Chew on the left side. I'm not being facetious here. I really do agree that almost anything is tolerable if we decide to. That last example is from personal experience: I have lost three teeth on the right side of my mouth and I have to chew on the left. Most of the time, I don't even think about it anymore. And it really isn't that big of a deal -- it doesn't have a very significant impact on the quality of my life. > Ashamed that someone else's system doesn't work? I can't help you there. That's some deep psychological issue. It could be. Like I commented elsewhere, I would expect a doctor to be ashamed of Andrew Wakefield, but maybe most of them aren't. And even if they are, it could be a deep psychological issue that I choose to compare the state of our industry to what Wakefield did in his. But here's the thing: I know that we can do better. Not perfect, better. But we don't have to, because we lack accountability. Sure, perfect is the enemy of the good. But complacency is the last refuge of the mediocre.

heedlessly2 9y ago

>This mentality is why I feel ashamed every time a receptionist apologizes for the wait why would you feel ashamed for waiting a little longer? that's an odd thing to be insecure about

triangleman 9y ago
Because the guy works on computers for a living.
CodeMage 9y ago
I'm not ashamed for waiting longer. I'm ashamed for the same reason I would expect doctors to feel ashamed about Andrew Wakefield.