4 ms·

As a society we need to have a much more sober response to this sort of allegation. Immediate career-ending consequences based on a mere accusation are ultimat

As a society we need to have a much more sober response to this sort of allegation. Immediate career-ending consequences based on a mere accusation are ultimately bad for both accuser and accused, because it raises the cost of making an accusation.

rectang 9y ago
We've reached this place in part because formal avenues of responding to harassment are so terrible. A lot of harassment cases involve sexual assault or other crimes, but the police and the courts are often so indifferent or hostile that they cannot even come close to fulfilling the role they should. Improving how the criminal justice system handles such crimes would be a big help, but it's a monumental task.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  > A lot of harassment cases involve sexual assault or other crimes, but the police and the courts are often so indifferent Are they? Or are most sexual assault cases incredibly messy and unclear?
  - late2part 9y ago
    My impression from reading these comments is that we should bifurcate sexual assault from sexual harassment. Both are bad, one is worse. It may be that the former is civil while the latter is criminal.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15953907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15953907
    - sheepmullet 9y ago
      A bankrupt and highly corrupt county does not represent the country as a whole. I do mean it as an honest question - is there evidence of widespread police indifference to rape? I'd like to know how often getting a rape kit done leads to a criminal conviction. Does it double the likelihood?
      - Avshalom 9y ago
        http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/where-backlog-exists-and-whats-happening-end-it http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/where-backlog-exists-an...
        sheepmullet 9y ago
        So I've read a few pages of that site and it seems like the main advantage is we can detect serial rapists. It turns out in certain parts of the country there are a lot of serial rapists. So now we have realised it is worthwhile and we are spending tens of millions to make sure we go through the backlog of rape kits to detect serial rapists. Now that there is money budgeted to do the work the police and courts are following through. That doesn't show police/court indifference or hostility at all.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    These aren't necessarily contradictory.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- belorn 9y ago
  Here in Sweden we have a dedicated police department and prosecutors that only deal with sexual violence, including making it a criminal law where it is the state that prosecute the crime regardless if the victim takes back the accusation. In total the rate in which cases get solved is almost twice that of the US, to a total of 9% for all cases between sexual misconduct to rape. Similarly in cases of violence, from battery to murder, has by coincident also a total of 9% clearing rate. In both, the main argument why its so low is neither hostility or indifference. What is cited is the lack of evidence where most of the time investigations only have words against words. It is really hard to determine who punched and who defended themselves outside a bar if there is no witnesses. Both the accused and defendant admit to be in the fight, and there is medical records to that, but details like who made the first punch is unclear. Similarly, its hard to prove the punishable part when two people have sex and both agree that it happened but one say they did not consent. Medical examination can prove the intercourse but rarely much more. Technically the court can choose who they want to believe purely based on oral statements, but as a matter of practice they tend to not make such decisions. When courts still do it they tend to get overruled later on. It is not clear how you can improve criminal justice system to get anything above 10%, and 1 out of 10 cases is so little that victims will never feel like the legal system is working. The only way I can think of that would actually fix society so that we can reasonable expect cases of violence and sexual violence to be solved is if surveillance became 100% in every bed room and every corner of society. Its a hefty price to pay for holding all criminals accountable for their action.

rectang 9y ago

We've reached this place in part because formal avenues of responding to harassment are so terrible. A lot of harassment cases involve sexual assault or other crimes, but the police and the courts are often so indifferent or hostile that they cannot even come close to fulfilling the role they should. Improving how the criminal justice system handles such crimes would be a big help, but it's a monumental task.

sheepmullet 9y ago
> A lot of harassment cases involve sexual assault or other crimes, but the police and the courts are often so indifferent Are they? Or are most sexual assault cases incredibly messy and unclear?
- late2part 9y ago
  My impression from reading these comments is that we should bifurcate sexual assault from sexual harassment. Both are bad, one is worse. It may be that the former is civil while the latter is criminal.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15953907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15953907
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    A bankrupt and highly corrupt county does not represent the country as a whole. I do mean it as an honest question - is there evidence of widespread police indifference to rape? I'd like to know how often getting a rape kit done leads to a criminal conviction. Does it double the likelihood?
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/where-backlog-exists-and-whats-happening-end-it http://www.endthebacklog.org/backlog/where-backlog-exists-an...
      - sheepmullet 9y ago
        So I've read a few pages of that site and it seems like the main advantage is we can detect serial rapists. It turns out in certain parts of the country there are a lot of serial rapists. So now we have realised it is worthwhile and we are spending tens of millions to make sure we go through the backlog of rape kits to detect serial rapists. Now that there is money budgeted to do the work the police and courts are following through. That doesn't show police/court indifference or hostility at all.
- mcguire 9y ago
  These aren't necessarily contradictory.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
belorn 9y ago
Here in Sweden we have a dedicated police department and prosecutors that only deal with sexual violence, including making it a criminal law where it is the state that prosecute the crime regardless if the victim takes back the accusation. In total the rate in which cases get solved is almost twice that of the US, to a total of 9% for all cases between sexual misconduct to rape. Similarly in cases of violence, from battery to murder, has by coincident also a total of 9% clearing rate. In both, the main argument why its so low is neither hostility or indifference. What is cited is the lack of evidence where most of the time investigations only have words against words. It is really hard to determine who punched and who defended themselves outside a bar if there is no witnesses. Both the accused and defendant admit to be in the fight, and there is medical records to that, but details like who made the first punch is unclear. Similarly, its hard to prove the punishable part when two people have sex and both agree that it happened but one say they did not consent. Medical examination can prove the intercourse but rarely much more. Technically the court can choose who they want to believe purely based on oral statements, but as a matter of practice they tend to not make such decisions. When courts still do it they tend to get overruled later on. It is not clear how you can improve criminal justice system to get anything above 10%, and 1 out of 10 cases is so little that victims will never feel like the legal system is working. The only way I can think of that would actually fix society so that we can reasonable expect cases of violence and sexual violence to be solved is if surveillance became 100% in every bed room and every corner of society. Its a hefty price to pay for holding all criminals accountable for their action.