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> "Musk doesn’t want to share a vehicle with “a bunch of random strangers.” But the presence of random strangers is what a city is" Yes. This is the essential

> "Musk doesn’t want to share a vehicle with “a bunch of random strangers.” But the presence of random strangers is what a city is" Yes. This is the essential fundamental pro & con of living in the city: "There's a lot of other people nearby". If the benefits of this situation don't outweigh the downsides, then maybe the city isn't right for you. This is not to say that maybe by appealing to the rich people who don't like associating with the rabble, he might have a successful business. But for the vast majority of commuters, the downside of public transport is not having to be close to strangers but rather the inconvenience (in america cities) of limited coverage and schedules. I personally don't like noisy trains, but a simple fix could designate some train cars to be no-talking, so I can more easily get work done.

forapurpose 9y ago
Agreed. What I like best about cities is the people; we're social animals. (Musk and others are entitled to their preferences, of course.) And there’s like a bunch of random strangers, one of who might be a serial killer I suspect Musk is orders of magnitude more likely to win the California lottery jackpot than meet a serial killer on the bus, much less be killed by them. He's too smart for this silliness.
- hinkley 9y ago
  In one of his presentations he talks about the stress of commuting with such intensity (“hell”) that I remarked that perhaps he should talk to a guru or a therapist. Now, I have never commuted in LA, but I have in chicago and Seattle and I can say from deep personal experience that much of the stress of commuting is self inflicted. There are ways to make that time less stressful and less “wasteful” but high intensity people often refuse to see.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Some people find it very stressful. I have a relative who did not use the tube in London as he had claustrophobia.
    - dzhiurgis 9y ago
      Using tube stoned or hungover can be very very very difficult. Also, mornings in London tube are unbearable.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    I've lived in LA and Seattle. Seattle is rough, but I can absolutely see how LA could legitimately cause you to need professional help. It has all the bad parts of being spread out like the suburbs, added to all the bad parts of living in the city.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      In the bio about him, Musk is quoted as asking something along the lines of "How much time do I have to spend with my girlfriend?" If that's your general attitude toward time management, spending time in crowded subways where you can maybe listen to a podcast isn't going to be viewed very favorably. And that's generally OK. There are good reasons to have just self-time. But public transit doesn't necessarily optimize that time. And for some people that's important.
  - gorbachev 9y ago
    I used to commute to work by driving car for several years. I now use public transportation. I will take the stress of getting sweated on by strangers over the stress of driving in rush hour traffic any time. Not to mention that in rush hour traffic there's always the one, and only one if you're lucky, selfish asshole who is hellbent on killing you with speeding, aggressive or distracted driving. There's a much higher chance of being killed in traffic than by imaginary serial killers on a subway car.
- walshemj 9y ago
  He is from SA which is a lot more violent so I maybe his initial upbringing has influenced him in that regard.
mlindner 9y ago
A lot of people need to work in a city but DONT want to live there. Many only live in cities because its convinient but would otherwise live outside the city.
- francisofascii 9y ago
  And many others would rather live in the city or closer to the city, but can't afford it.
- nrhk 9y ago
  The thing is we already have a solution to that, high speed commuter rails from the suburbs into the city, there's just not enough funding to build out the infrastructure. The amount of people who come into Tokyo is mind boggling.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    The problem is that high speed rail is only cost effective when it is going between two dense cities. If it goes to low density suburbs not enough people will ride it for it to be financially viable.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      We certainly don’t hold roads to a standard like “financially viable,” and systems like Metro, LIRR, and BART may have their problems but they exist.
      - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
        That's an awfully loose definition of "high speed". Metro North averages about 37 mph and LIRR about 31 mph[1]. The only high speed rail in the US is Acela and even that is pretty slow for high speed rail. [1] https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-efficiency-is-important/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-effi...
joelrunyon 9y ago
This is very NYC/east-coast true, but travel on the west coast is much more individualized.
closeparen 9y ago
If you’re imagining getting work done, I don’t think you understand what transit crowding is like. In cities with busy transit systems, getting a seat is out of the question - the variable is how tightly you’ll be squished against your fellow standees, and whether it will even be possible to squeeze onto the train. The problem is absolutely being too close to strangers. Still, going to individual cabins is an over-reaction, what we need is longer and more frequent trains so that people can at least have seats and/or room to breathe.
- kevmo314 9y ago
  > what we need is longer and more frequent trains so that people can at least have seats and/or room to breathe. I think autonomously networked trains would be a huge leap towards accomplishing this. The headway between trains could be cut down dramatically and could allow for some magical improvements, eg express trains passing using the opposing direction's rail, that aren't feasible with human drivers.
  - lev99 9y ago
    DC has autonomous trains (in metro) until an accident happened and they switched to human conductors. Autonomous networked trains aren't new technology.
    - munk-a 9y ago
      Vancouver has them and (while the SkyTrain has had loads of issues) the autonomous part isn't one of them, this may be due to the fact that the rails are not at ground level which prevents stupid humans from doing stupid stuff along with a higher emphasis on avoiding collisions over getting places (when it snows sometimes sensors will get tripped and prevent the system from allowing any trains to run over a section because the system believes that section is occupied)
      - lurr 9y ago
        Living in Seattle I miss the skytrain.
camelCaseOfBeer 9y ago
So Elon Musk is rich and put on a pedestal as such but statements like this prove he's no less prone to talking out of his ass than the best of us. You for instance, this, "random stranger" sharing good and compelling ideas are exactly the reason I don't mind sharing public spaces. And I think you're right on the money, the reason people don't take the bus is because it is more convenient to drive. In Mexico there's a service called, "collectivo", a private passenger van that picks commuters up from work and brings them to their neighborhood. I think this is in part the future of transit. The idea is to be somewhere when the crowd needs them. The future I envision is one in which public transit takes advantage daily fluctuations of transit needs and the individual needs of its, "subscribers" in a convenient way. The tech is there, the algorithms are well-trodden, all that's missing is the enterprise making public transport, "more convenient."
floriferous 9y ago
Switzerland has those silent cars. If you make just a bit too much noise, passengers will happily come and stop you. Great environment to work or read!
- reaperducer 9y ago
  Chicago, too, on the Metra trains. Unfortunately, Metra recently got rid of the bar cars on its commuter trains. Only Metra can lose money selling booze.
  - wombatpm 9y ago
    I know. Now I drink from 40oz can in a paper bag. I feel like a hobo.
- walterstucco 9y ago
  Switzerland is not a real country. The largest city in Switzerland is Zurich, 400 thousands inhabitants Like a veey small city everywhere else in Europe.
lurr 9y ago
I'm not rich but I hate taking transit partly because of the people. Some kids in the back are being noisy, the homeless man there is pestering me for food because I have grocery bags, and some guy is falling asleep on my shoulder. Gee, what a great time.

forapurpose 9y ago

Agreed. What I like best about cities is the people; we're social animals. (Musk and others are entitled to their preferences, of course.) And there’s like a bunch of random strangers, one of who might be a serial killer I suspect Musk is orders of magnitude more likely to win the California lottery jackpot than meet a serial killer on the bus, much less be killed by them. He's too smart for this silliness.

hinkley 9y ago
In one of his presentations he talks about the stress of commuting with such intensity (“hell”) that I remarked that perhaps he should talk to a guru or a therapist. Now, I have never commuted in LA, but I have in chicago and Seattle and I can say from deep personal experience that much of the stress of commuting is self inflicted. There are ways to make that time less stressful and less “wasteful” but high intensity people often refuse to see.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Some people find it very stressful. I have a relative who did not use the tube in London as he had claustrophobia.
  - dzhiurgis 9y ago
    Using tube stoned or hungover can be very very very difficult. Also, mornings in London tube are unbearable.
- CaptSpify 9y ago
  I've lived in LA and Seattle. Seattle is rough, but I can absolutely see how LA could legitimately cause you to need professional help. It has all the bad parts of being spread out like the suburbs, added to all the bad parts of living in the city.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    In the bio about him, Musk is quoted as asking something along the lines of "How much time do I have to spend with my girlfriend?" If that's your general attitude toward time management, spending time in crowded subways where you can maybe listen to a podcast isn't going to be viewed very favorably. And that's generally OK. There are good reasons to have just self-time. But public transit doesn't necessarily optimize that time. And for some people that's important.
- gorbachev 9y ago
  I used to commute to work by driving car for several years. I now use public transportation. I will take the stress of getting sweated on by strangers over the stress of driving in rush hour traffic any time. Not to mention that in rush hour traffic there's always the one, and only one if you're lucky, selfish asshole who is hellbent on killing you with speeding, aggressive or distracted driving. There's a much higher chance of being killed in traffic than by imaginary serial killers on a subway car.
walshemj 9y ago
He is from SA which is a lot more violent so I maybe his initial upbringing has influenced him in that regard.

mlindner 9y ago

A lot of people need to work in a city but DONT want to live there. Many only live in cities because its convinient but would otherwise live outside the city.

francisofascii 9y ago
And many others would rather live in the city or closer to the city, but can't afford it.
nrhk 9y ago
The thing is we already have a solution to that, high speed commuter rails from the suburbs into the city, there's just not enough funding to build out the infrastructure. The amount of people who come into Tokyo is mind boggling.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  The problem is that high speed rail is only cost effective when it is going between two dense cities. If it goes to low density suburbs not enough people will ride it for it to be financially viable.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    We certainly don’t hold roads to a standard like “financially viable,” and systems like Metro, LIRR, and BART may have their problems but they exist.
    - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
      That's an awfully loose definition of "high speed". Metro North averages about 37 mph and LIRR about 31 mph[1]. The only high speed rail in the US is Acela and even that is pretty slow for high speed rail. [1] https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-efficiency-is-important/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2015/07/26/why-labor-effi...

joelrunyon 9y ago

This is very NYC/east-coast true, but travel on the west coast is much more individualized.

closeparen 9y ago

If you’re imagining getting work done, I don’t think you understand what transit crowding is like. In cities with busy transit systems, getting a seat is out of the question - the variable is how tightly you’ll be squished against your fellow standees, and whether it will even be possible to squeeze onto the train. The problem is absolutely being too close to strangers. Still, going to individual cabins is an over-reaction, what we need is longer and more frequent trains so that people can at least have seats and/or room to breathe.

kevmo314 9y ago
> what we need is longer and more frequent trains so that people can at least have seats and/or room to breathe. I think autonomously networked trains would be a huge leap towards accomplishing this. The headway between trains could be cut down dramatically and could allow for some magical improvements, eg express trains passing using the opposing direction's rail, that aren't feasible with human drivers.
- lev99 9y ago
  DC has autonomous trains (in metro) until an accident happened and they switched to human conductors. Autonomous networked trains aren't new technology.
  - munk-a 9y ago
    Vancouver has them and (while the SkyTrain has had loads of issues) the autonomous part isn't one of them, this may be due to the fact that the rails are not at ground level which prevents stupid humans from doing stupid stuff along with a higher emphasis on avoiding collisions over getting places (when it snows sometimes sensors will get tripped and prevent the system from allowing any trains to run over a section because the system believes that section is occupied)
    - lurr 9y ago
      Living in Seattle I miss the skytrain.

camelCaseOfBeer 9y ago

So Elon Musk is rich and put on a pedestal as such but statements like this prove he's no less prone to talking out of his ass than the best of us. You for instance, this, "random stranger" sharing good and compelling ideas are exactly the reason I don't mind sharing public spaces. And I think you're right on the money, the reason people don't take the bus is because it is more convenient to drive. In Mexico there's a service called, "collectivo", a private passenger van that picks commuters up from work and brings them to their neighborhood. I think this is in part the future of transit. The idea is to be somewhere when the crowd needs them. The future I envision is one in which public transit takes advantage daily fluctuations of transit needs and the individual needs of its, "subscribers" in a convenient way. The tech is there, the algorithms are well-trodden, all that's missing is the enterprise making public transport, "more convenient."

floriferous 9y ago

Switzerland has those silent cars. If you make just a bit too much noise, passengers will happily come and stop you. Great environment to work or read!

reaperducer 9y ago
Chicago, too, on the Metra trains. Unfortunately, Metra recently got rid of the bar cars on its commuter trains. Only Metra can lose money selling booze.
- wombatpm 9y ago
  I know. Now I drink from 40oz can in a paper bag. I feel like a hobo.
walterstucco 9y ago
Switzerland is not a real country. The largest city in Switzerland is Zurich, 400 thousands inhabitants Like a veey small city everywhere else in Europe.

lurr 9y ago

I'm not rich but I hate taking transit partly because of the people. Some kids in the back are being noisy, the homeless man there is pestering me for food because I have grocery bags, and some guy is falling asleep on my shoulder. Gee, what a great time.