4 ms·

This. I think I would be willing to pay a higher total flat tax if it was just simpler. Right now, I spend a few thousand/year and an annoying amount of time t

This. I think I would be willing to pay a higher total flat tax if it was just simpler. Right now, I spend a few thousand/year and an annoying amount of time to make sure I'm doing it right.

munk-a 9y ago
I think everyone* wants this, and this is how it works in Sweden where most people get mailed a pre-filled tax form and just have to vet the information and direct the refund/pay the bill. In the US there is a not small industry of tax preparers that exists solely due to the complexity of our tax code. The complexity is there to keep H&R Block, TurboTax etc... in business by encouraging middle/low income people to keep returning to them every year. I am amazed at how far from the stated goal of "We want you to do your taxes on an index card" this bill is going to come out as... and saddened that the majority of voters supporting the GOP won't feel fleeced by it. *(with the exception of those preparers that very much want to keep the complexity and rich people/large businesses that can exploit loopholes effectively)
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  I'm not sure people will feel "fleeced" since most people (~80%) are getting a tax cut - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bill-calculator/?utm_term=.38d3832f7d71 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bi...
  - curun1r 9y ago
    They'll only feel fleeced when the follow-up cuts to Social Security and Medicare get felt. Republicans have been very careful to say that only the benefits of current recipients of those programs won't see cuts. The rest of us who aren't yet retired will take a pretty huge hit in retirement. That's where we're being fleeced. Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced, but anyone who understands the concept of saving for retirement should be able to put together that we're having our tax burden lessened by $1k-$2k per year and, in exchange, needing to almost entirely fend for ourselves in retirement.
    - joelrunyon 9y ago
      > Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced It's not a tax return, it's a tax cut. That means the government is taking less money from me (not giving me more money). I don't know anyone under 35 that's actually counting on SS on being there for them (not saying they're happy about, but most realized 10+ years ago that it's not gonna happen). That was a reality before this happened.
      - curun1r 9y ago
        I meant that more as a description of people who don't understand finances. Anyone who knows anything realizes that a tax return is returning you your own money. But some people treat it like a windfall rather than a restoration of their own property. Those kinds of people are the ones that don't think far enough ahead to realize that what's being taken from them, retirement, is much more valuable than what's being given to them, a small tax cut. But anyone with an actual retirement plan should be furious because those programs--that we've paid into for our entire working careers--will be supplying us with significantly less than they would otherwise. Yes, we've known that Social Security isn't going to be enough on its own ever since Bush II replaced all the money with IOUs, but until this tax cut, there was a reasonable expectation that those programs would survive in some form and augment our 401(k) and IRA accounts. Now, we're basically on our own. And with the Republican unwillingness to deal with health care, we'll likely be left to fend for ourselves in that area...convenient since that's the most expensive part of life when it comes to medical expenses. But hey, the 0.01% got it rough and need some tax relief, right?

This. I think I would be willing to pay a higher total flat tax if it was just simpler. Right now, I spend a few thousand/year and an annoying amount of time to make sure I'm doing it right.

munk-a 9y ago

I think everyone* wants this, and this is how it works in Sweden where most people get mailed a pre-filled tax form and just have to vet the information and direct the refund/pay the bill. In the US there is a not small industry of tax preparers that exists solely due to the complexity of our tax code. The complexity is there to keep H&R Block, TurboTax etc... in business by encouraging middle/low income people to keep returning to them every year. I am amazed at how far from the stated goal of "We want you to do your taxes on an index card" this bill is going to come out as... and saddened that the majority of voters supporting the GOP won't feel fleeced by it. *(with the exception of those preparers that very much want to keep the complexity and rich people/large businesses that can exploit loopholes effectively)

joelrunyon 9y ago
I'm not sure people will feel "fleeced" since most people (~80%) are getting a tax cut - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bill-calculator/?utm_term=.38d3832f7d71 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bi...
- curun1r 9y ago
  They'll only feel fleeced when the follow-up cuts to Social Security and Medicare get felt. Republicans have been very careful to say that only the benefits of current recipients of those programs won't see cuts. The rest of us who aren't yet retired will take a pretty huge hit in retirement. That's where we're being fleeced. Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced, but anyone who understands the concept of saving for retirement should be able to put together that we're having our tax burden lessened by $1k-$2k per year and, in exchange, needing to almost entirely fend for ourselves in retirement.
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    > Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced It's not a tax return, it's a tax cut. That means the government is taking less money from me (not giving me more money). I don't know anyone under 35 that's actually counting on SS on being there for them (not saying they're happy about, but most realized 10+ years ago that it's not gonna happen). That was a reality before this happened.
    - curun1r 9y ago
      I meant that more as a description of people who don't understand finances. Anyone who knows anything realizes that a tax return is returning you your own money. But some people treat it like a windfall rather than a restoration of their own property. Those kinds of people are the ones that don't think far enough ahead to realize that what's being taken from them, retirement, is much more valuable than what's being given to them, a small tax cut. But anyone with an actual retirement plan should be furious because those programs--that we've paid into for our entire working careers--will be supplying us with significantly less than they would otherwise. Yes, we've known that Social Security isn't going to be enough on its own ever since Bush II replaced all the money with IOUs, but until this tax cut, there was a reasonable expectation that those programs would survive in some form and augment our 401(k) and IRA accounts. Now, we're basically on our own. And with the Republican unwillingness to deal with health care, we'll likely be left to fend for ourselves in that area...convenient since that's the most expensive part of life when it comes to medical expenses. But hey, the 0.01% got it rough and need some tax relief, right?