4 ms·

I don't buy this story. The entire post is one sided - am I really supposed to believe some pr agency straight up stole your money? And now 7 months later you a

by soared 9y ago

I don't buy this story. The entire post is one sided - am I really supposed to believe some pr agency straight up stole your money? And now 7 months later you are "doing what we can on a legal front"? This is a perfect example of why we should all follow the "innocent until proven guilty" idea. There is no proof, no chance for the agency to refute claims, etc. Convenient that they are also asking for more financing.

aqme28 9y ago
I think it's great to get both sides of a story, but this is a blog post by one side of the issue. Of course it's going to be their side. And if the other side has "cut off all communication," I don't know how you can expect them to not be one-sided.
- soared 9y ago
  True, but outside of 2 screenshots of messages we don't see any of their communication prior to them cutting it off. I feel like there are a thousand details the author didn't share with us.
valuearb 9y ago
The culprits have chosen to block people who ask them about it on twitter, and so far haven't told "their side".
- soared 9y ago
  Blocking people on twitter doesn't mean anything, and this blog post came out today so I'm sure the agency is working on writing something with actual proof to respond with.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    They’ve had 7 months to get their story right.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      And now they responded, and the reason they didn't have a story ready was apparently they didn't anticipate the accusation because they were working to help fix a screwed up situation for the accuser.
- kjrose 9y ago
  I have a feeling this may be a crossed wires problem where someone spent the money raised before they sent it because of bad accounting or whatever. Regardless, if the statement “we received none of the money” is true. There is definitely something bad going on here.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    If it's been 7 months, that should be plenty of time to replace the money. If the money was too much to replace in that period of time, I'm not sure how I can believe it was of an amount that could be accidentally spent in this way. If I had an extra $1,000 in my account, I might accidentally spend it, but I could replace it eventually. If I had an extra $50,000 in my account, that would be much harder to replace, but I'm not sure how I could with a straight face say I spent it accidentally.
    - user15672 9y ago
      Looks like replacing the money isn't the issue, it's whether or not D-Cal have screwed over the agency. Over half of the KS pledges were made fraudulently by D-Cal themselves, meaning the money doesn't actually exist and their campaign was a failure. This puts the agency on the hook for any and all refunds if the people who actually put their money into pledges ask for a refund (the agency account is tied to the campaign now). D-Cal have apparently not come up with a proper solution to repay the money if this happens, so Woodshed are not happy about releasing the funds until this is resolved (on their accountants advice). I'd suggest that all D-Cal have to do is finish setting up an account that can be used on KS and the account could be switched and funds deposited. Either that or put enough cash to cover the agencies costs into some sort of escrow. (https://medium.com/@jeff_52578/how-a-failed-kickstarter-campaign-told-the-world-half-the-story-and-painted-us-as-crowdfunding-b0582fd11f93 https://medium.com/@jeff_52578/how-a-failed-kickstarter-camp...)
- zdragnar 9y ago
  If there's pending legal action, it would be foolish to respond publicly. That in and of itself tells us nothing of right and wrong.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    That’s not true. There are plenty of ways to respond without increasing your liability. “We can’t comment until pending legal is resolved due to advice of council” is one. Far better is, “It’s not true, facts are X, Y, and Z.” Telling the truth in public isn’t going to increase your liability, if you aren’t guilty of anything.
    - zdragnar 9y ago
      > “We can’t comment until pending legal is resolved due to advice of council” is a non-response of the best sort. It does absolutely nothing to dispel the presumption of guilt, though, and if anything, merely adds weight to the "you aren't responding because you're guilty" mindset. As for “It’s not true, facts are X, Y, and Z.”, well, I'm Not A Lawyer. I presume that's a bit like a coach for a sports team giving a news conference to tell everyone which strategies and plays they're going to be making in the upcoming game. Facts can be disputed, procedural rules can get facts excluded, and so forth. Whether or not it is a "far better" strategy (weighing PR versus court battle) is too fuzzy for a lay person to judge accurately, I think.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Let me point out that the "culprits" responded, and it's a very good response. And turns out I was wrong to jump to conclusions because of their silence/blocking. Though they did initially handled it very poorly for a PR firm.
joekrill 9y ago
Normally I'd agree with you. But it's kind of a huge red flag when a PR agency sets their twitter account to private.
inflagranti 9y ago
It looks from the other side of the story (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s3ymjWo7lQJxsrf0uDEurJZ3FBeLKkzH/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s3ymjWo7lQJxsrf0uDEurJZ3FBe...) you were totally right and really do not deserve those downvotes. But the mob has spoken.

by soared 9y ago

aqme28 9y ago

I think it's great to get both sides of a story, but this is a blog post by one side of the issue. Of course it's going to be their side. And if the other side has "cut off all communication," I don't know how you can expect them to not be one-sided.

soared 9y ago
True, but outside of 2 screenshots of messages we don't see any of their communication prior to them cutting it off. I feel like there are a thousand details the author didn't share with us.

valuearb 9y ago

The culprits have chosen to block people who ask them about it on twitter, and so far haven't told "their side".

soared 9y ago
Blocking people on twitter doesn't mean anything, and this blog post came out today so I'm sure the agency is working on writing something with actual proof to respond with.
- valuearb 9y ago
  They’ve had 7 months to get their story right.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    And now they responded, and the reason they didn't have a story ready was apparently they didn't anticipate the accusation because they were working to help fix a screwed up situation for the accuser.
kjrose 9y ago
I have a feeling this may be a crossed wires problem where someone spent the money raised before they sent it because of bad accounting or whatever. Regardless, if the statement “we received none of the money” is true. There is definitely something bad going on here.
- kbenson 9y ago
  If it's been 7 months, that should be plenty of time to replace the money. If the money was too much to replace in that period of time, I'm not sure how I can believe it was of an amount that could be accidentally spent in this way. If I had an extra $1,000 in my account, I might accidentally spend it, but I could replace it eventually. If I had an extra $50,000 in my account, that would be much harder to replace, but I'm not sure how I could with a straight face say I spent it accidentally.
  - user15672 9y ago
    Looks like replacing the money isn't the issue, it's whether or not D-Cal have screwed over the agency. Over half of the KS pledges were made fraudulently by D-Cal themselves, meaning the money doesn't actually exist and their campaign was a failure. This puts the agency on the hook for any and all refunds if the people who actually put their money into pledges ask for a refund (the agency account is tied to the campaign now). D-Cal have apparently not come up with a proper solution to repay the money if this happens, so Woodshed are not happy about releasing the funds until this is resolved (on their accountants advice). I'd suggest that all D-Cal have to do is finish setting up an account that can be used on KS and the account could be switched and funds deposited. Either that or put enough cash to cover the agencies costs into some sort of escrow. (https://medium.com/@jeff_52578/how-a-failed-kickstarter-campaign-told-the-world-half-the-story-and-painted-us-as-crowdfunding-b0582fd11f93 https://medium.com/@jeff_52578/how-a-failed-kickstarter-camp...)
zdragnar 9y ago
If there's pending legal action, it would be foolish to respond publicly. That in and of itself tells us nothing of right and wrong.
- valuearb 9y ago
  That’s not true. There are plenty of ways to respond without increasing your liability. “We can’t comment until pending legal is resolved due to advice of council” is one. Far better is, “It’s not true, facts are X, Y, and Z.” Telling the truth in public isn’t going to increase your liability, if you aren’t guilty of anything.
  - zdragnar 9y ago
    > “We can’t comment until pending legal is resolved due to advice of council” is a non-response of the best sort. It does absolutely nothing to dispel the presumption of guilt, though, and if anything, merely adds weight to the "you aren't responding because you're guilty" mindset. As for “It’s not true, facts are X, Y, and Z.”, well, I'm Not A Lawyer. I presume that's a bit like a coach for a sports team giving a news conference to tell everyone which strategies and plays they're going to be making in the upcoming game. Facts can be disputed, procedural rules can get facts excluded, and so forth. Whether or not it is a "far better" strategy (weighing PR versus court battle) is too fuzzy for a lay person to judge accurately, I think.
valuearb 9y ago
Let me point out that the "culprits" responded, and it's a very good response. And turns out I was wrong to jump to conclusions because of their silence/blocking. Though they did initially handled it very poorly for a PR firm.

joekrill 9y ago

Normally I'd agree with you. But it's kind of a huge red flag when a PR agency sets their twitter account to private.

inflagranti 9y ago

It looks from the other side of the story (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s3ymjWo7lQJxsrf0uDEurJZ3FBeLKkzH/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s3ymjWo7lQJxsrf0uDEurJZ3FBe...) you were totally right and really do not deserve those downvotes. But the mob has spoken.