6 ms·

Delusions are hard to get rid of. Leave campaigned on lies, voters swallowed them, and the government is now bound to try and live by those lies. Like all delu

Delusions are hard to get rid of. Leave campaigned on lies, voters swallowed them, and the government is now bound to try and live by those lies. Like all delusions, this will continue to entrench itself against reason. When the negotiators fail to reach their delusional goal, the deluded will formulate a conspiracy narrative to protect their delusion.

WhirlingBirdz 9y ago
Other explanations for why the working-class voted for Brexit are available.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  Is this really a new norm, where troll accounts are created to push bigoted talking points? This account is 9 minutes old. The other day I had a similar “interaction” with a 30 minute old account. Who is paying for this campaign?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jstanley 9y ago
    Exactly what was bigoted about that comment?
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      This comment in particular wasn't super bigoted, but it could bet taken as "the UK needed to leave the EU because of immigration." On the other hand, a comment down the page by the same account seemed to suggest at least they were engaging in conversation not just using a throwaway account. Mind you, when I flagged the comment I was extrapolating based on a similar interaction I had the other day, when a newly created account with no previous history posted a comment implying that rape was a problem "with a certain culture". A few other comments on that thread were nuked, and a comment from dang (a moderator) seemed to suggest that type of behavior is relatively common.
      - jstanley 9y ago
        The comment didn't even mention immigration, let alone go anywhere near claiming immigration is bad. You shouldn't assume that everyone in favour of brexit is bigoted. FWIW, I'm in favour of brexit, and I'm also in favour of freedom of movement. In fact, I advocate total freedom of movement: no passports, no visas, no checks. Let free people move freely. If I can travel to Manchester without having to justify myself, why can't I cross borders in the same way? I am in favour of brexit for totally unrelated reasons. Just because you may have heard that some brexit supporters want to impose stricter border controls doesn't mean all brexit supporters want that.
      - Myrmornis 9y ago
        You flagged a one sentence, polite, comment, just because you disagreed with its stance on Brexit? That’s a classic example of the pathetic intolerance of modern young lefties. Rather than engage, attempt to delegitimize and deplatform. (Spoken as an anti-brexit liberal myself).
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    My account is 1881 days old, and I'd happily say exactly the same as WhirlingBirdz, with zero intention to troll.
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      And that would've been fine, as long as you provided some context. My comment was based (as I explain elsewhere) on newly created accounts throwing one-off propaganda comments.
      - jstanley 9y ago
        You're discriminating against accounts just for being new, to the extent of flagging totally unprovocative comments, and you claim they're the bigoted ones? Maybe now you see why people create throwaway accounts when stating these "things you can't say".
  - Myrmornis 9y ago
    On the other hand, it wasn't a very trollish comment. Certainly not bigoted, unless it has been edited since you commented! Would you like to revise that description? Another explanation of the young account phenomenon would be that there is nowadays a larger proportion of people who read the site without accounts and therefore that more comments are from first-time commenters. Perhaps certain types of stories attract more first time commenters. But if it is true that there are more comments from young accounts nowadays, I do agree that that's interesting. The data's available to answer that I believe; anyone know?
    - tremon 9y ago
      Regardless of how you want to label it, it wasn't a very convincing argument either. It had zero substance, didn't ask any questions, nor did it try to further the discussion. I think I can fully represent the post with a single vocalization: "nuh-uh".
      - seorphates 9y ago
        And that justifies the remainder of the thread existing how, exactly?
  - Myrmornis 9y ago
    Would one of the mods mind explaining what happened in this thread? WhirlingBirdz' comment is marked as [flagged][dead] and their reply further down has now disappeared. It said something (politely and reasonably) along the lines of "I'm not sure what is bigoted about my comment; many other explanations are more mainstream than that the working class was misled by lies."
ravloony 9y ago
I don't subscribe to this at all. I think that the better explanation is that the people who are negotiating with the EU are, almost to a man, convinced EU-philes (for want of a better word). And so they favour the EU position in the negociations, instead of just implementing the will of the people.
auxbuss 9y ago
> and the government is now bound to try and live by those lies. This is a false assessment. The European Union Referendum Bill 2015-16[0] specifically states: "This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017. It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a vote to leave the EU should be implemented. Instead, this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the electorate to voice an opinion which then influences the Government in its policy decisions." [0] http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7...

WhirlingBirdz 9y ago

Other explanations for why the working-class voted for Brexit are available.

dguaraglia 9y ago
Is this really a new norm, where troll accounts are created to push bigoted talking points? This account is 9 minutes old. The other day I had a similar “interaction” with a 30 minute old account. Who is paying for this campaign?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jstanley 9y ago
  Exactly what was bigoted about that comment?
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    This comment in particular wasn't super bigoted, but it could bet taken as "the UK needed to leave the EU because of immigration." On the other hand, a comment down the page by the same account seemed to suggest at least they were engaging in conversation not just using a throwaway account. Mind you, when I flagged the comment I was extrapolating based on a similar interaction I had the other day, when a newly created account with no previous history posted a comment implying that rape was a problem "with a certain culture". A few other comments on that thread were nuked, and a comment from dang (a moderator) seemed to suggest that type of behavior is relatively common.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      The comment didn't even mention immigration, let alone go anywhere near claiming immigration is bad. You shouldn't assume that everyone in favour of brexit is bigoted. FWIW, I'm in favour of brexit, and I'm also in favour of freedom of movement. In fact, I advocate total freedom of movement: no passports, no visas, no checks. Let free people move freely. If I can travel to Manchester without having to justify myself, why can't I cross borders in the same way? I am in favour of brexit for totally unrelated reasons. Just because you may have heard that some brexit supporters want to impose stricter border controls doesn't mean all brexit supporters want that.
    - Myrmornis 9y ago
      You flagged a one sentence, polite, comment, just because you disagreed with its stance on Brexit? That’s a classic example of the pathetic intolerance of modern young lefties. Rather than engage, attempt to delegitimize and deplatform. (Spoken as an anti-brexit liberal myself).
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  My account is 1881 days old, and I'd happily say exactly the same as WhirlingBirdz, with zero intention to troll.
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    And that would've been fine, as long as you provided some context. My comment was based (as I explain elsewhere) on newly created accounts throwing one-off propaganda comments.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      You're discriminating against accounts just for being new, to the extent of flagging totally unprovocative comments, and you claim they're the bigoted ones? Maybe now you see why people create throwaway accounts when stating these "things you can't say".
- Myrmornis 9y ago
  On the other hand, it wasn't a very trollish comment. Certainly not bigoted, unless it has been edited since you commented! Would you like to revise that description? Another explanation of the young account phenomenon would be that there is nowadays a larger proportion of people who read the site without accounts and therefore that more comments are from first-time commenters. Perhaps certain types of stories attract more first time commenters. But if it is true that there are more comments from young accounts nowadays, I do agree that that's interesting. The data's available to answer that I believe; anyone know?
  - tremon 9y ago
    Regardless of how you want to label it, it wasn't a very convincing argument either. It had zero substance, didn't ask any questions, nor did it try to further the discussion. I think I can fully represent the post with a single vocalization: "nuh-uh".
    - seorphates 9y ago
      And that justifies the remainder of the thread existing how, exactly?
- Myrmornis 9y ago
  Would one of the mods mind explaining what happened in this thread? WhirlingBirdz' comment is marked as [flagged][dead] and their reply further down has now disappeared. It said something (politely and reasonably) along the lines of "I'm not sure what is bigoted about my comment; many other explanations are more mainstream than that the working class was misled by lies."

ravloony 9y ago

I don't subscribe to this at all. I think that the better explanation is that the people who are negotiating with the EU are, almost to a man, convinced EU-philes (for want of a better word). And so they favour the EU position in the negociations, instead of just implementing the will of the people.

auxbuss 9y ago

> and the government is now bound to try and live by those lies. This is a false assessment. The European Union Referendum Bill 2015-16[0] specifically states: "This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017. It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a vote to leave the EU should be implemented. Instead, this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the electorate to voice an opinion which then influences the Government in its policy decisions." [0] http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7...