7 ms·

> Developers currently must design two different apps -- one for iOS, the operating system of Apple’s mobile devices, and one for macOS, the system that runs Ma

by bo1024 9y ago

> Developers currently must design two different apps -- one for iOS, the operating system of Apple’s mobile devices, and one for macOS, the system that runs Macs. That’s a lot more work. One set of devices have ONLY a touchscreen as an interface. The other set of devices have ONLY a keyboard and mouse. So how will this create less work? I think it will mean that each app either (a) bundles two essentially-different programs into one "application", or (b) gives up on desktop usability. Sadly I expect (b) and I feel that Apple does too, and doesn't mind.

_rpd 9y ago
My laptop has a touchscreen. I didn't even realize until I needed to clean it. Maybe they'll require all new macOS screens to be touchscreens?
- valuearb 9y ago
  Well, it’s been so useful to you....
  - _rpd 9y ago
    Yeah but my nieces and nephews are practically touchscreen only users, so maybe for them. I'm personally holding out for decent voice controlled UI - should be any year now.
    - adjkant 9y ago
      This highlights something incredibly important. There's a very stark age line in people using touch screens by default. I TA an intro CS course, and I've noticed the line creep. It's somewhere between those born in 1998 and 2002. They just all like touch screens better because that's what they are used to. I haven't even graduated and am feeling like a greybeard when it comes to this area. I have to wonder if it's simply that we were trained to be mouse by default...
      - _rpd 9y ago
        It's difficult to argue that touchscreen isn't more natural in some sense. I've seen a 2 year old competently use an iPad to access media and play simple games. Programming seems to require a more sophisticated UI though, so I worry that touchscreen people will be even less inclined than usual to hack on internals, etc.
- jessriedel 9y ago
  I think Apple has explicitly eschewed touchscreens on any screen that is always held vertically (i.e., laptop and desktops). They said usability studies consistently found people's arms get tired.
chaostheory 9y ago
I guess this also helps explain why the new Mac Pros are becoming giant iPads, away from the old openable cheese grater design.
- valuearb 9y ago
  Unlike older iMacs?
  - chaostheory 9y ago
    Good point - it's even more obvious https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/the-evolution-of-the-imac-from-1998-to-today-0.jpg https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/t...
- macintux 9y ago
  iMac Pro. We don't know the form factor for the new Mac Pro yet, but all signs are encouraging that it'll be expandable.
whowouldathunk 9y ago
Apple Watch has a crown and a touch screen. iPad Pros have keyboards, pens, and a touch screen. Apple TV has directional and trackpad input. All support voice input. All work fine with basically the same UI toolkit.
- bo1024 9y ago
  Interesting point. I am mainly biased toward caring about desktops and laptops, I don't use any of those devices.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    So maybe you should think a little more before you make a statement?
  - nkristoffersen 9y ago
    It’s just the UI. Most of the underlying logic code and magic sauce can stay the same I bet.
gambiting 9y ago
On the other hand, Windows Store apps have "required"(loosely) that all interface works with both mice+keyboard and touchscreen. So it's not impossible, just yeah, a lot of work.
fredley 9y ago
Given that Apple seems to be following more and more industry trends, maybe touchscreen Macs are coming?
- valuearb 9y ago
  Unlikely. Apple likely hasn’t solved the problem that the form factor for touchscreen desktops suck. This is about making development easier for enterprise developers.
  - pmontra 9y ago
    Why do touchscreen desktops suck? I'd be happy to touch the reply button below this input form instead of using the touchpad to move the cursor to there and click. In other cases I'd use the touchpad (the cursor is more fine grained than my finger) but some touchscreen / some touchpad seems fine to me. Fingerprints on a matte screen? Maybe that's a problem.
    - valuearb 9y ago
      Fingerprints is a problem, but a more minor one. Pulling your hand off the more accurate touchpad is another one. Screen weight/balance is another one, you want a really stiff screen for touching, but not so stiff you can't easily move it. I'd say one of my biggest peeves is tap area sizes. Your fingers need much bigger areas to tap in accurately, so an efficient touch UI needs way more space for tap areas. But that space is wasted when you are using a mouse/touchpad cursor. I think Apples stance that the additional costs and impediments aren't worth the minor gains has been reasonable. But it's probably close. I wouldn't be shocked if they changed their minds on their next round of laptops.
    - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
      Shoulder pain will be an issue for people using it all day long. I know I can't lift my hand up to the screen hundereds of times per day.
    - nozzlegear 9y ago

by bo1024 9y ago

_rpd 9y ago

My laptop has a touchscreen. I didn't even realize until I needed to clean it. Maybe they'll require all new macOS screens to be touchscreens?

valuearb 9y ago
Well, it’s been so useful to you....
- _rpd 9y ago
  Yeah but my nieces and nephews are practically touchscreen only users, so maybe for them. I'm personally holding out for decent voice controlled UI - should be any year now.
  - adjkant 9y ago
    This highlights something incredibly important. There's a very stark age line in people using touch screens by default. I TA an intro CS course, and I've noticed the line creep. It's somewhere between those born in 1998 and 2002. They just all like touch screens better because that's what they are used to. I haven't even graduated and am feeling like a greybeard when it comes to this area. I have to wonder if it's simply that we were trained to be mouse by default...
    - _rpd 9y ago
      It's difficult to argue that touchscreen isn't more natural in some sense. I've seen a 2 year old competently use an iPad to access media and play simple games. Programming seems to require a more sophisticated UI though, so I worry that touchscreen people will be even less inclined than usual to hack on internals, etc.
jessriedel 9y ago
I think Apple has explicitly eschewed touchscreens on any screen that is always held vertically (i.e., laptop and desktops). They said usability studies consistently found people's arms get tired.

chaostheory 9y ago

I guess this also helps explain why the new Mac Pros are becoming giant iPads, away from the old openable cheese grater design.

valuearb 9y ago
Unlike older iMacs?
- chaostheory 9y ago
  Good point - it's even more obvious https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/the-evolution-of-the-imac-from-1998-to-today-0.jpg https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/t...
macintux 9y ago
iMac Pro. We don't know the form factor for the new Mac Pro yet, but all signs are encouraging that it'll be expandable.

whowouldathunk 9y ago

Apple Watch has a crown and a touch screen. iPad Pros have keyboards, pens, and a touch screen. Apple TV has directional and trackpad input. All support voice input. All work fine with basically the same UI toolkit.

bo1024 9y ago
Interesting point. I am mainly biased toward caring about desktops and laptops, I don't use any of those devices.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  So maybe you should think a little more before you make a statement?
- nkristoffersen 9y ago
  It’s just the UI. Most of the underlying logic code and magic sauce can stay the same I bet.

gambiting 9y ago

On the other hand, Windows Store apps have "required"(loosely) that all interface works with both mice+keyboard and touchscreen. So it's not impossible, just yeah, a lot of work.

fredley 9y ago

Given that Apple seems to be following more and more industry trends, maybe touchscreen Macs are coming?

valuearb 9y ago
Unlikely. Apple likely hasn’t solved the problem that the form factor for touchscreen desktops suck. This is about making development easier for enterprise developers.
- pmontra 9y ago
  Why do touchscreen desktops suck? I'd be happy to touch the reply button below this input form instead of using the touchpad to move the cursor to there and click. In other cases I'd use the touchpad (the cursor is more fine grained than my finger) but some touchscreen / some touchpad seems fine to me. Fingerprints on a matte screen? Maybe that's a problem.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    Fingerprints is a problem, but a more minor one. Pulling your hand off the more accurate touchpad is another one. Screen weight/balance is another one, you want a really stiff screen for touching, but not so stiff you can't easily move it. I'd say one of my biggest peeves is tap area sizes. Your fingers need much bigger areas to tap in accurately, so an efficient touch UI needs way more space for tap areas. But that space is wasted when you are using a mouse/touchpad cursor. I think Apples stance that the additional costs and impediments aren't worth the minor gains has been reasonable. But it's probably close. I wouldn't be shocked if they changed their minds on their next round of laptops.
  - fauigerzigerk 9y ago
    Shoulder pain will be an issue for people using it all day long. I know I can't lift my hand up to the screen hundereds of times per day.
  - nozzlegear 9y ago