8 ms·

I was hoping for a refresh of the apple TV product line. Its too bad there is no 1080P playback, thats a dealbreaker for me.

ams6110 16y ago
720p is fine for a consumer device as long as the usability is there. That's why I still prefer VHS tapes to DVD, despite the lower image quality.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  720p is fine for a consumer device as long as the usability is there. That's why I still prefer VHS tapes to DVD, despite the lower image quality. How long has it been since you had a complete physical checkup?
  - ams6110 16y ago
    Hmm... probably about 15 years. On balance I find tapes easier to use and less frustrating. I am not prevented from skipping the FBI warnings, studio logos, legal disclaimers, previews, and other nonsense. VHS tapes are much more robust. I've never had to clean one, or have it not work. DVDs have conniption fits over a few fingerprints, and if they get scratched, forget about it. And if you do have to remove and clean a DVD to resolve a freeze-up, you then have to navigate through menus to get back to where you left off. With VHS, you can stop the tape, remove it, turn the player off, and come back later and pick up exactly where you left off. Yeah the VHS picture is not as good as a DVD, no argument there. But for a typical Hollywood movie on a TV at home, it's good enough. Certainly no worse than the haphazard stutters, pixelization, and freezes one experiences in a typical DVD viewing. Now, consider the iTV. Fingerprints and scratched media, not going to be a problem. Picture quality, at 720p, good enough for the masses, especially for a $99 device. If they can bypass the studio-imposed inconveniences and make using it a frustration-free experience, they will sell plenty of them.
    - natrius 16y ago
      What percent of people still use VHS tapes? Your personal opinions are a poor predictor of how the mass market will accept a product. Your choices seem relatively well-reasoned, but they are odd.
      - electromagnetic 16y ago
        When I watch a Disney movie there's a 50/50 chance it's either VHS or through my xbox 360. I despise the FBI warnings; I'm from Canada, try and catch me! We're apparently the kingdom of video pirates as is, obviously the FBI warnings aren't doing shit here as is so why do I have to sit through them, plus a bunch of other anti-piracy warnings, sometimes in like 5 different languages. I haven't switched over to bluray yet. Too expensive and the extra image (1080 vs 420) isn't worth it for 90% of movies and TV shows for me and those that are I can stream 1080p through my xbox.
- jmaygarden 16y ago
  I sometimes want to scream when the DVD player won't let me skip all the crap at the beginning and go straight to the menu. A VHS player just does what it's told! (That said, my VHS player is in the attic.)
  - danieldon 16y ago
    stop, stop, play
  - lkjhgfhjk 16y ago
    And the nice thing about the iTV is that it can play anything it (or Jobs) wants before playing your movie. Mandatory 15min previews of new Pixar movies before you can watch your download? No roblem.
- timthorn 16y ago
  Yes, but that's not what the market(ing) is telling the consumers.
bho 16y ago
Same. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wanted the 1080p on the old model. I wonder what the rationale is in not having it.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  Probably because people don't receive beyond 720p in most areas (I know I don't) through digital cable or satellite. However, I receive 1080p by streaming through my xbox, so Apple TV won't even have a hope of being a replacement.
  - vetinari 16y ago
    It is probably rude, but I'm still too curious and have to ask: what part of the world are you living in, where you don't get 1080p satellite coverage?
    - electromagnetic 16y ago
      Canada! Say hello to the bullshit of a government supported monopoly that is Bell. Even the other satellite companies don't provide 1080p, IIRC there is one within Canada, but most people I know who are receiving 1080p are catching US signals to get it (better selection anyway I guess). Our government prevents outside companies from entering the markets and make it damn-near impossible for internal companies from entering the market too to ensure Bell, Rogers and Telus keep their monopolies. Telus barely has a TV service. Rogers has cable, but are locked out of many areas, thankfully my area I get Cogeco which provide relatively cheap, very good quality internet. I don't watch live-TV for shows I need in 1080p anyway, so I deal anyway. I don't exactly want adverts when watching a SG:U in 1080p; kills the experience.
adolph 16y ago
Nintendo seems to sell a lot of devices at lower resolution (480p). It'll be interesting to see what kind of cost/performance tradeoff Apple makes.
- MrRage 16y ago
  I think that's acceptable for video games, especially the sort of video games that Nintendo makes. For video content I don't think so. I'll watch upscaled DVDs for certain types of content (e.g. don't really care if episodes of Big Bang Theory are in 1080p), but for movies with great cinematography I want as much resolution as possible.
- Tamerlin 16y ago
  Nintendo is specifically targeting the mainstream consumer. Apple likes being a premium brand. Not supporting 1080p doesn't fit with being a premium product.
mikeryan 16y ago
Just out of curiosity what content would you be watching on an appple itv device that's at 1080p? The vast majority of its content is delivered via IP and 1080p video which streams at about 45Mbps isn't really realistic to be moving around on most networks. Most 1080p video is still going to be distributed the old fashioned way... On blu-Ray.
- wmf 16y ago
  IIRC Sony is selling 8Mbps 1080p content on the PS3. I think Apple is genuinely behind in this case.
  - nixy 16y ago
    What is the notable quality difference between 8Mbps 1080p and 8Mbps 720p scaled to 1080p?
    - mikeryan 16y ago
      Bingo. thats the point you can't deliver 8Mbps 1080p of any decent quality. In fact 1080p at 8Mpbs is generally worse quality then 720p upscaled.
- gnaffle 16y ago
  It's realistic enough that it's perfectly doable on Pirate Bay. Apple could have been innovative here and offered a (legal) BitTorrent network for downloading HD content. I _think_ that a lot of non-technical people (even Apple fans) will have a hard time buying accessories for their shiny new "Full HD" flatscreen TV, and then buying an Apple TV that doesn't support it. Unless they reduce the price to the point where it's a no-brainer. Fortunately, I'm still able to buy an Apple TV that supports 1080p without problems, called a Mac Mini :)
  - mikeryan 16y ago
    I disagree that its perfectly doable on pirate bay. Downloading and watching 1080p movies via the pirate bay is even an edge case for that service. Take a look at their "High Res" movies http://thepiratebay.org/top/207 http://thepiratebay.org/top/207 First the majority are in 720. The ones that are in 1080 tend to be 10GB to 50GB in size and downloading them can take days (I've tried - on a decent cable modem connection). Then you need to store these beasts which means some sort of multi-terabyte storage server - or burning them to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disk. A perfectly acceptable alternative but then you're not usually using an Apple "iTV" as your playback device. So so far this is so far out as an edge case that Apple's choice still makes sense.

ams6110 16y ago

720p is fine for a consumer device as long as the usability is there. That's why I still prefer VHS tapes to DVD, despite the lower image quality.

CamperBob 16y ago
720p is fine for a consumer device as long as the usability is there. That's why I still prefer VHS tapes to DVD, despite the lower image quality. How long has it been since you had a complete physical checkup?
- ams6110 16y ago
  Hmm... probably about 15 years. On balance I find tapes easier to use and less frustrating. I am not prevented from skipping the FBI warnings, studio logos, legal disclaimers, previews, and other nonsense. VHS tapes are much more robust. I've never had to clean one, or have it not work. DVDs have conniption fits over a few fingerprints, and if they get scratched, forget about it. And if you do have to remove and clean a DVD to resolve a freeze-up, you then have to navigate through menus to get back to where you left off. With VHS, you can stop the tape, remove it, turn the player off, and come back later and pick up exactly where you left off. Yeah the VHS picture is not as good as a DVD, no argument there. But for a typical Hollywood movie on a TV at home, it's good enough. Certainly no worse than the haphazard stutters, pixelization, and freezes one experiences in a typical DVD viewing. Now, consider the iTV. Fingerprints and scratched media, not going to be a problem. Picture quality, at 720p, good enough for the masses, especially for a $99 device. If they can bypass the studio-imposed inconveniences and make using it a frustration-free experience, they will sell plenty of them.
  - natrius 16y ago
    What percent of people still use VHS tapes? Your personal opinions are a poor predictor of how the mass market will accept a product. Your choices seem relatively well-reasoned, but they are odd.
    - electromagnetic 16y ago
      When I watch a Disney movie there's a 50/50 chance it's either VHS or through my xbox 360. I despise the FBI warnings; I'm from Canada, try and catch me! We're apparently the kingdom of video pirates as is, obviously the FBI warnings aren't doing shit here as is so why do I have to sit through them, plus a bunch of other anti-piracy warnings, sometimes in like 5 different languages. I haven't switched over to bluray yet. Too expensive and the extra image (1080 vs 420) isn't worth it for 90% of movies and TV shows for me and those that are I can stream 1080p through my xbox.
jmaygarden 16y ago
I sometimes want to scream when the DVD player won't let me skip all the crap at the beginning and go straight to the menu. A VHS player just does what it's told! (That said, my VHS player is in the attic.)
- danieldon 16y ago
  stop, stop, play
- lkjhgfhjk 16y ago
  And the nice thing about the iTV is that it can play anything it (or Jobs) wants before playing your movie. Mandatory 15min previews of new Pixar movies before you can watch your download? No roblem.
timthorn 16y ago
Yes, but that's not what the market(ing) is telling the consumers.

bho 16y ago

Same. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wanted the 1080p on the old model. I wonder what the rationale is in not having it.

electromagnetic 16y ago
Probably because people don't receive beyond 720p in most areas (I know I don't) through digital cable or satellite. However, I receive 1080p by streaming through my xbox, so Apple TV won't even have a hope of being a replacement.
- vetinari 16y ago
  It is probably rude, but I'm still too curious and have to ask: what part of the world are you living in, where you don't get 1080p satellite coverage?
  - electromagnetic 16y ago
    Canada! Say hello to the bullshit of a government supported monopoly that is Bell. Even the other satellite companies don't provide 1080p, IIRC there is one within Canada, but most people I know who are receiving 1080p are catching US signals to get it (better selection anyway I guess). Our government prevents outside companies from entering the markets and make it damn-near impossible for internal companies from entering the market too to ensure Bell, Rogers and Telus keep their monopolies. Telus barely has a TV service. Rogers has cable, but are locked out of many areas, thankfully my area I get Cogeco which provide relatively cheap, very good quality internet. I don't watch live-TV for shows I need in 1080p anyway, so I deal anyway. I don't exactly want adverts when watching a SG:U in 1080p; kills the experience.

adolph 16y ago

Nintendo seems to sell a lot of devices at lower resolution (480p). It'll be interesting to see what kind of cost/performance tradeoff Apple makes.

MrRage 16y ago
I think that's acceptable for video games, especially the sort of video games that Nintendo makes. For video content I don't think so. I'll watch upscaled DVDs for certain types of content (e.g. don't really care if episodes of Big Bang Theory are in 1080p), but for movies with great cinematography I want as much resolution as possible.
Tamerlin 16y ago
Nintendo is specifically targeting the mainstream consumer. Apple likes being a premium brand. Not supporting 1080p doesn't fit with being a premium product.

mikeryan 16y ago

Just out of curiosity what content would you be watching on an appple itv device that's at 1080p? The vast majority of its content is delivered via IP and 1080p video which streams at about 45Mbps isn't really realistic to be moving around on most networks. Most 1080p video is still going to be distributed the old fashioned way... On blu-Ray.

wmf 16y ago
IIRC Sony is selling 8Mbps 1080p content on the PS3. I think Apple is genuinely behind in this case.
- nixy 16y ago
  What is the notable quality difference between 8Mbps 1080p and 8Mbps 720p scaled to 1080p?
  - mikeryan 16y ago
    Bingo. thats the point you can't deliver 8Mbps 1080p of any decent quality. In fact 1080p at 8Mpbs is generally worse quality then 720p upscaled.
gnaffle 16y ago
It's realistic enough that it's perfectly doable on Pirate Bay. Apple could have been innovative here and offered a (legal) BitTorrent network for downloading HD content. I _think_ that a lot of non-technical people (even Apple fans) will have a hard time buying accessories for their shiny new "Full HD" flatscreen TV, and then buying an Apple TV that doesn't support it. Unless they reduce the price to the point where it's a no-brainer. Fortunately, I'm still able to buy an Apple TV that supports 1080p without problems, called a Mac Mini :)
- mikeryan 16y ago
  I disagree that its perfectly doable on pirate bay. Downloading and watching 1080p movies via the pirate bay is even an edge case for that service. Take a look at their "High Res" movies http://thepiratebay.org/top/207 http://thepiratebay.org/top/207 First the majority are in 720. The ones that are in 1080 tend to be 10GB to 50GB in size and downloading them can take days (I've tried - on a decent cable modem connection). Then you need to store these beasts which means some sort of multi-terabyte storage server - or burning them to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disk. A perfectly acceptable alternative but then you're not usually using an Apple "iTV" as your playback device. So so far this is so far out as an edge case that Apple's choice still makes sense.