4 ms·

> From a German point of view, a credit card is a downgrade. Not only germans use the german system. When other Europeans go to European institutions that are

> From a German point of view, a credit card is a downgrade. Not only germans use the german system. When other Europeans go to European institutions that are placed in Germany, we can't use electronic payments. A system established 34 years ago should not be an acceptable excuse for a subpar service. It is a shame (and quite fraud-risky!) to go on a taxi and have to wait 5-10 minutes for the taxi driver to carbon copy your credit card details in the invoice (now he only needs to memorize 3-4 digits for the security number), whilst in the same country Uber, and other similar services that provide immediate payment facilities with no open handling of sensitive data, have been banned.

pgeorgi 9y ago
> A system established 34 years ago should not be an acceptable excuse for a subpar service. The system was developed in those 34 years, both on user visible features (EMV card with chip&pin in 2004) and invisible (SEPA Cards Clearing, implemented in 2015). The latter allows any SEPA based participant (and those outside, apparently there's some interest in Brazil) to handle clearing of transactions compatibly. That should allow card based SEPA Credit/Debit Transfers (which draws from 34 years old ELV a lot). Merging incompatible banking systems takes time, but IMHO that's better than just layering another rent seeker or two (the credit card company, plus potentially Stripe) on top. Offtopic, but: > whilst in the same country Uber has been banned Maybe they should have read up on the local regulations instead of spouting their usual nonsense about fighting the taxi cartel? (nevermind that the biggest player in that space is Uber itself) A cursory reading of the relevant laws got me three different ways to try to establish a legal setup in which they could have proved their contribution to the public transport system for a couple of years (after which that could be extended or be made part of the official playbook). But it sometimes looks like reading laws is a fireable offense at Uber.
- harperlee 9y ago
  I don't disagree with you. There are other entities that solve the issue for taxi service, such as mytaxi, that pay by the rules - still "an extra layer of rent seekers" though. But in general, even if technically possible, not a lot of businesses accept visa or mastercard - be it that the bank does not provide the service, or that they charge extra, it is not available. Luckily PSD2 will soon open the space to more players.
- def_true_false 9y ago
  Considering how widespread accepting cash only is, you'll end up paying more for ATM withdrawals than you save on the lower merchant fees (that is, if the merchant even passes those onto you). Unless you want to carry hundreds in cash on you. I've also noticed that not many people pay contactless, even when the terminals support it... and the cashiers tend to assume that the card is not contactless for some reason.
  - pgeorgi 9y ago
    ATM withdrawal typically is free (at the same banking group). The merchant fees are part of the total cost, so lower fees provide a competitive edge to the merchant. (the listed price also contains VAT, so you pay what's on the sticker, not like in the US) Aldi (a discount grocery chain) didn't accept _any_ cards for a long time to avoid these extra costs. In short: the German market situation is rigged in favor of cash, which is "free", which is hard to compete with when you're selling credit card services for a living.
    - lovich 9y ago
      Why kind of world has people saying cash is rigged to be cheaper. It's the medium of exchange, everything else is on top of it. Of course it costs more!

pgeorgi 9y ago

> A system established 34 years ago should not be an acceptable excuse for a subpar service. The system was developed in those 34 years, both on user visible features (EMV card with chip&pin in 2004) and invisible (SEPA Cards Clearing, implemented in 2015). The latter allows any SEPA based participant (and those outside, apparently there's some interest in Brazil) to handle clearing of transactions compatibly. That should allow card based SEPA Credit/Debit Transfers (which draws from 34 years old ELV a lot). Merging incompatible banking systems takes time, but IMHO that's better than just layering another rent seeker or two (the credit card company, plus potentially Stripe) on top. Offtopic, but: > whilst in the same country Uber has been banned Maybe they should have read up on the local regulations instead of spouting their usual nonsense about fighting the taxi cartel? (nevermind that the biggest player in that space is Uber itself) A cursory reading of the relevant laws got me three different ways to try to establish a legal setup in which they could have proved their contribution to the public transport system for a couple of years (after which that could be extended or be made part of the official playbook). But it sometimes looks like reading laws is a fireable offense at Uber.

harperlee 9y ago
I don't disagree with you. There are other entities that solve the issue for taxi service, such as mytaxi, that pay by the rules - still "an extra layer of rent seekers" though. But in general, even if technically possible, not a lot of businesses accept visa or mastercard - be it that the bank does not provide the service, or that they charge extra, it is not available. Luckily PSD2 will soon open the space to more players.
def_true_false 9y ago
Considering how widespread accepting cash only is, you'll end up paying more for ATM withdrawals than you save on the lower merchant fees (that is, if the merchant even passes those onto you). Unless you want to carry hundreds in cash on you. I've also noticed that not many people pay contactless, even when the terminals support it... and the cashiers tend to assume that the card is not contactless for some reason.
- pgeorgi 9y ago
  ATM withdrawal typically is free (at the same banking group). The merchant fees are part of the total cost, so lower fees provide a competitive edge to the merchant. (the listed price also contains VAT, so you pay what's on the sticker, not like in the US) Aldi (a discount grocery chain) didn't accept _any_ cards for a long time to avoid these extra costs. In short: the German market situation is rigged in favor of cash, which is "free", which is hard to compete with when you're selling credit card services for a living.
  - lovich 9y ago
    Why kind of world has people saying cash is rigged to be cheaper. It's the medium of exchange, everything else is on top of it. Of course it costs more!