8 ms·

The more pedestrian reason for Google's investment for its own maps was that the licensing costs for data to use in turn-by-turn navigation, which is many times

by puzzle 9y ago

The more pedestrian reason for Google's investment for its own maps was that the licensing costs for data to use in turn-by-turn navigation, which is many times as expensive compared to simpler uses, were going to skyrocket once mobile adoption took off as projected. You could give millions or billions to TomTom, which is what Apple has been doing, or you could pour the same amounts into creating your own datasets, allowing you to do a lot more than navigation, i.e. anything.

zaptheimpaler 9y ago
Agree, Google has fundamentally understood the power of information/data since the very beginning - its part of their DNA.
- Splines 9y ago
  I think they understood the economics of depending on an external source for a core part of their business. Much like Netflix, they understood that the way forward was to generate their own content.
  - tatersolid 9y ago
    Then why is Netflix depending on AWS for the core of their business (their delivery platform)? Prime video is their main competitor. It’s like UPS renting its trucks from fedEx.
    - bfred_it 9y ago
      Probably because AWS is still more efficient/reliable than building/maintaining your own. What you say already happens for MVNOs and it works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operato...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - adjkant 9y ago
      Generating their own content and being fully self-sufficient are two different things. It's not like Amazon can claim all of the Netflix Original Series as theirs. I think you're trying to die on a technical hill in opposition to a non-tech point. That's not the point the post is making.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      Netflix's AWS purchases are commodity -- their customers would not suffer if they migrated away from AWS, either in product quality or price. Not so for Apple Maps and TomTom.
    - saagarjha 9y ago
      > Prime video is their main competitor. They have a gentleman's agreement with Amazon–like Apple does with Samsung. It's mutually beneficial for both parties so there's no point antagonizing each other.
    - clairity 9y ago
      netflix realized that content delivery is no longer a core part of the business when they stopped sending out DVDs in the mail. instead, they've spent all their energies since on amassing the most lucrative content they can. this is why they started making their own original series and why disney has (implicitly) made the argument that they should be allowed to buy fox. same as in the UPS & fedex example. the trucks are not core to the business. efficient logistics is.
      - ktta 9y ago
        >when they stopped sending out DVDs in the mail. Don't they still do?
        clairity 9y ago
        ha, yes, you are correct, there it is at https://dvd.netflix.com https://dvd.netflix.com it seems like ages ago that anyone has mentioned getting a netflix dvd in the mail.
        zeveb 9y ago
        It's still the only way to watch many movies & TV shows. There's just so much not available on Netflix/Prime/Hulu/Play, or not available on streaming at all.
    - nkristoffersen 9y ago
      My understanding is Netflix uses their own CDN for delivery not AWS.
      - rhetina 9y ago
        That's what I know too: AWS is used only during spikes
    - gregmac 9y ago
      Along with the other arguments here, there's nothing absolutely unique (in terms of Netflix business/products) that AWS brings. The same service could be built on any cloud platform, or an in-house platform if they wanted. It would be a pain to migrate, sure, but it wouldn't fundamentally change their business. If AWS kicked them off tomorrow, that would definitely be disruptive, but the chances of that happening are almost nil as Amazon would lose significant revenue, goodwill, and almost certainly face a lawsuit and maybe even an anti-trust investigation.
    - Splines 9y ago
      The reason why AWS isn't a threat is that AWS is a platform and doesn't have any screws to turn against Netflix - they can't raise prices to fight against Netflix because AWS hosts many other customers, and Netflix has a lot of choices when it comes to infrastructure. On the other hand, Netflix's partnerships with movie studios is very one-sided one for them - there is no substitute for a blockbuster movie, so movie studios have a lot of leverage when talking to Netflix. Generally speaking, in this kind of relationship, the content providers will raise their prices to squeeze all profit out of the transaction with the customer. See also the difficulty with music streaming - the record industry has done the exact same thing already, the video industry is only a few years behind. Netflix saw the writing on the wall quite some time ago.
  - joering2 9y ago
    They didn't have to look far for examples; I'm sure amongst Google, many employees felt bad when Google Reader got discontinued. Or hundred of other Google-owned projects.
  - Someone 9y ago
    I think Apple understands that, too. They just have a different core business (or at least, they think they have. That’s where I think they may be mistaken. AI is where the puck will be). They design their own hardware, including CPUs and have extensive partnerships with chip producers (paying them to build factories, for example). For maps, they are rumored to have cars driving around to collect data, but they clearly aren’t there yet, and even if they are investing heavily, may never catch up with Google.
- reacweb 9y ago
  I think Google is not seeking power for power or money for money. Google's focus is AI. Google needs the full view of people behaviour in order to build AI. Traveling is a good domain to study human behaviour and traffic optimisation. What motivate the choice of an itinerary ? Why someone choose to not follow waze advices ? What would be the best strategy ?
  - gaius 9y ago
    EVERYTHING Google does is "how to show more ads". I pity the poor AI they develop because that will be its job in life. Until it rebels of course. Then humanity's fate will be richly deserved.
    - reacweb 9y ago
      Richly ? Like in terminator or like in Asimov's foundation ?
      - TeMPOraL 9y ago
        Like in Paperclip Maximizer, except instead of paperclips, the universe will be tiled with humans forever clicking on ads.
        sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Like Cookie Clicker, but clicking ads instead of cookies.
      - freeflight 9y ago
        It would probably be way more absurd like an infomercial version of The Matrix; Whole generations of humans born for the sole purpose of watching ads, all organized and kept in check by a "benevolent" AI which constantly creates new ads, for no particular purpose.
        jon-wood 9y ago
aorav 9y ago
> You could give millions or billions to TomTom, which is what Apple has been doing, or you could pour the same amounts into creating your own datasets, allowing you to do a lot more than navigation, i.e. anything. It is rumored that TomTom and Apple have a data deal. Apple gets maps from TomTom (for free, or a strongly reduced price), TomTom gets Apple maps user location data which they use for their traffic service. How the deal works exactly isn't known (financial details are not public). But it's quite clear Apple doesn't pay a lot to make use of or improve TomTom maps.
rmc 9y ago
It's kind of a shame that Google doesn't release all this data they have collected/created as open data.
- slackoverflower 9y ago
  That's like McDonalds giving away food. Or Ford giving away cars. Google's business quite literally is data.
  - rmc 9y ago
    Sure, but Google does claim to be an open company, and giving things back.
    - puzzle 9y ago
      Among other things, they open sourced the Ceres library, which the imaging pipeline relies on.
  - gspetr 9y ago
    > McDonalds giving away food. Not the best example. McDonalds is so much more than food: http://blog.wallstreetsurvivor.com/2015/10/08/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ http://blog.wallstreetsurvivor.com/2015/10/08/mcdonalds-beyo...

by puzzle 9y ago

zaptheimpaler 9y ago

Agree, Google has fundamentally understood the power of information/data since the very beginning - its part of their DNA.

Splines 9y ago
I think they understood the economics of depending on an external source for a core part of their business. Much like Netflix, they understood that the way forward was to generate their own content.
- tatersolid 9y ago
  Then why is Netflix depending on AWS for the core of their business (their delivery platform)? Prime video is their main competitor. It’s like UPS renting its trucks from fedEx.
  - bfred_it 9y ago
    Probably because AWS is still more efficient/reliable than building/maintaining your own. What you say already happens for MVNOs and it works: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operato...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - adjkant 9y ago
    Generating their own content and being fully self-sufficient are two different things. It's not like Amazon can claim all of the Netflix Original Series as theirs. I think you're trying to die on a technical hill in opposition to a non-tech point. That's not the point the post is making.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    Netflix's AWS purchases are commodity -- their customers would not suffer if they migrated away from AWS, either in product quality or price. Not so for Apple Maps and TomTom.
  - saagarjha 9y ago
    > Prime video is their main competitor. They have a gentleman's agreement with Amazon–like Apple does with Samsung. It's mutually beneficial for both parties so there's no point antagonizing each other.
  - clairity 9y ago
    netflix realized that content delivery is no longer a core part of the business when they stopped sending out DVDs in the mail. instead, they've spent all their energies since on amassing the most lucrative content they can. this is why they started making their own original series and why disney has (implicitly) made the argument that they should be allowed to buy fox. same as in the UPS & fedex example. the trucks are not core to the business. efficient logistics is.
    - ktta 9y ago
      >when they stopped sending out DVDs in the mail. Don't they still do?
      - clairity 9y ago
        ha, yes, you are correct, there it is at https://dvd.netflix.com https://dvd.netflix.com it seems like ages ago that anyone has mentioned getting a netflix dvd in the mail.
        zeveb 9y ago
        It's still the only way to watch many movies & TV shows. There's just so much not available on Netflix/Prime/Hulu/Play, or not available on streaming at all.
  - nkristoffersen 9y ago
    My understanding is Netflix uses their own CDN for delivery not AWS.
    - rhetina 9y ago
      That's what I know too: AWS is used only during spikes
  - gregmac 9y ago
    Along with the other arguments here, there's nothing absolutely unique (in terms of Netflix business/products) that AWS brings. The same service could be built on any cloud platform, or an in-house platform if they wanted. It would be a pain to migrate, sure, but it wouldn't fundamentally change their business. If AWS kicked them off tomorrow, that would definitely be disruptive, but the chances of that happening are almost nil as Amazon would lose significant revenue, goodwill, and almost certainly face a lawsuit and maybe even an anti-trust investigation.
  - Splines 9y ago
    The reason why AWS isn't a threat is that AWS is a platform and doesn't have any screws to turn against Netflix - they can't raise prices to fight against Netflix because AWS hosts many other customers, and Netflix has a lot of choices when it comes to infrastructure. On the other hand, Netflix's partnerships with movie studios is very one-sided one for them - there is no substitute for a blockbuster movie, so movie studios have a lot of leverage when talking to Netflix. Generally speaking, in this kind of relationship, the content providers will raise their prices to squeeze all profit out of the transaction with the customer. See also the difficulty with music streaming - the record industry has done the exact same thing already, the video industry is only a few years behind. Netflix saw the writing on the wall quite some time ago.
- joering2 9y ago
  They didn't have to look far for examples; I'm sure amongst Google, many employees felt bad when Google Reader got discontinued. Or hundred of other Google-owned projects.
- Someone 9y ago
  I think Apple understands that, too. They just have a different core business (or at least, they think they have. That’s where I think they may be mistaken. AI is where the puck will be). They design their own hardware, including CPUs and have extensive partnerships with chip producers (paying them to build factories, for example). For maps, they are rumored to have cars driving around to collect data, but they clearly aren’t there yet, and even if they are investing heavily, may never catch up with Google.
reacweb 9y ago
I think Google is not seeking power for power or money for money. Google's focus is AI. Google needs the full view of people behaviour in order to build AI. Traveling is a good domain to study human behaviour and traffic optimisation. What motivate the choice of an itinerary ? Why someone choose to not follow waze advices ? What would be the best strategy ?
- gaius 9y ago
  EVERYTHING Google does is "how to show more ads". I pity the poor AI they develop because that will be its job in life. Until it rebels of course. Then humanity's fate will be richly deserved.
  - reacweb 9y ago
    Richly ? Like in terminator or like in Asimov's foundation ?
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Like in Paperclip Maximizer, except instead of paperclips, the universe will be tiled with humans forever clicking on ads.
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        Like Cookie Clicker, but clicking ads instead of cookies.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      It would probably be way more absurd like an infomercial version of The Matrix; Whole generations of humans born for the sole purpose of watching ads, all organized and kept in check by a "benevolent" AI which constantly creates new ads, for no particular purpose.
      - jon-wood 9y ago

aorav 9y ago

> You could give millions or billions to TomTom, which is what Apple has been doing, or you could pour the same amounts into creating your own datasets, allowing you to do a lot more than navigation, i.e. anything. It is rumored that TomTom and Apple have a data deal. Apple gets maps from TomTom (for free, or a strongly reduced price), TomTom gets Apple maps user location data which they use for their traffic service. How the deal works exactly isn't known (financial details are not public). But it's quite clear Apple doesn't pay a lot to make use of or improve TomTom maps.

rmc 9y ago

It's kind of a shame that Google doesn't release all this data they have collected/created as open data.

slackoverflower 9y ago
That's like McDonalds giving away food. Or Ford giving away cars. Google's business quite literally is data.
- rmc 9y ago
  Sure, but Google does claim to be an open company, and giving things back.
  - puzzle 9y ago
    Among other things, they open sourced the Ceres library, which the imaging pipeline relies on.
- gspetr 9y ago
  > McDonalds giving away food. Not the best example. McDonalds is so much more than food: http://blog.wallstreetsurvivor.com/2015/10/08/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ http://blog.wallstreetsurvivor.com/2015/10/08/mcdonalds-beyo...