4 ms·

Red means high speed and it's sad to see almost no high speed in the u.s. sigh The one from NY to Boston shouldn't even be called "high speed", if anyone has r

by pcurve 9y ago

Red means high speed and it's sad to see almost no high speed in the u.s. sigh The one from NY to Boston shouldn't even be called "high speed", if anyone has ridden in one before. It's actually slower than driving!

microcolonel 9y ago
Make a proper argument for high speed rail. I think it's rare in the U.S. in part because it's not an idea which is popular with people who need to get around and move things. High speed rail is popular with government, since it's an attractive sophisticated infrastructure program, but (perhaps TGV aside) I don't think any high speed rail service could be considered a success in any real way.
- eggsome 9y ago
  Germany's ICE trains? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express Or the Shinkansen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen (a major cultural touchstone for Japan in additon to the economic aspects).
- jandrese 9y ago
  They are a success in that people ride them regularly. Less of a success in that the tickets are often more expensive than a comparable flight, although secondary factors like security, terminal location, and legroom can make the train the preferable option even at a higher price.
  - herbst 9y ago
    Train rides <= 3 hours are also often faster than the related flight when you account for airports usually beeing more far out of the city and all the time you waste within the airport. Also if you connect 2 cities without major airport (which would lead to having to change plane) i found this rule to be true for 7+ hours train rides as well.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  The US had the largest rail system in the world and more streetcar lines that Europe not over 100 years ago. They're all gone now. Here's a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cjfTG8DbwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cjfTG8DbwA "America is too spread out" is a bullshit argument. You put the rail architecture back in and you'll watch communities draw inward, zoning laws merge and neighborhoods get closer and more sustainable. Access to transportation is the biggest factor in being able to move out of poverty. That's not a subjective statement. It's been verified in study after study. Don't like living next to people and hate public transport? That's fine. There are tons of Europeans and Australians like that who live outside the cities and drive. They have that choice, because the cities are affordable and livable. Every Australian capital has commuter rail except Darwin, Hobart and ACT. In America, it's incredibly difficult to live without a car in almost every major city and most of our capitals, and we have a far far greater population density.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    > "America is too spread out" is a bullshit argument. It may well be a bullshit argument, but it's also an argument that I did not make. My point was entirely that the markets do not seem to value high speed rail highly enough to justify its costs, and that the U.S. (for its faults) largely represents this low market valuation of high speed rail by not financing it. You seem to make an argument with the assumption that you know the utility of high speed rail is higher than the cost, I avoid this assumption. High speed rail is apparently worth less than it costs, state pricing distortions included. You might like it, it might be attractive, it might make things more dense, you might think that's a good thing... and none of that matters because apparently it's just not worth it to the market which will be tasked with funding it, all things considered.
    - herbst 9y ago
      IMO this shouldnt be a cost decission but quality of life for the tax payer. Pretty sure governments arent ment to be profitable in all what they do.
- kylegordon 9y ago
  TGV falls into the same class as Thalys, ICE, etc When a Thalys route was opened between Paris and Brussels (200 miles), Air France withdrew their flights and booked seats on the train instead. American, Delta and JetA also operate a code sharing route on the train route. Beyond Brussels, Skyteam group uses Thalys to link Brussels with Schipol. So, yeah, link cities as you would with plane (airport time included), and High Speed Rail works. I've used it, and it's a vast improvement over wasting time in airports and jumping through air travel 'security' hoops.
- adrianN 9y ago
  High speed rail connects city centers with comfortable, fast, dependable transportation. Look for example at the Shinkansen system in Japan. You can travel from Tokyo to Kyoto (~450km by car) in about three hours door to door for about a hundred dollars. The trains run every couple of minutes. Shinkansen are very popular in Japan. I don't know how you could not call them a success story.
  - microcolonel 9y ago
    > Shinkansen are very popular in Japan. I don't know how you could not call them a success story. The Shinkansen may have some popular (profitable) lines, but it took a long time for the service to shed the lines which were built for purely political reasons under JNR. The fascist approach to building rail lines relies on hiding the true cost of rail (across private land) in subsidies and loans which are structured out of successors and written off by the government.
rmc 9y ago
OSM is popular in Europe, and Germany in particular. So when the German train nerds are mapping and choosing colours, they tend to have a European focus.
Nelkins 9y ago
Where does it say what the colors mean? What is yellow? And the dotted lines?

by pcurve 9y ago

microcolonel 9y ago

Make a proper argument for high speed rail. I think it's rare in the U.S. in part because it's not an idea which is popular with people who need to get around and move things. High speed rail is popular with government, since it's an attractive sophisticated infrastructure program, but (perhaps TGV aside) I don't think any high speed rail service could be considered a success in any real way.

eggsome 9y ago
Germany's ICE trains? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity-Express Or the Shinkansen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen (a major cultural touchstone for Japan in additon to the economic aspects).
jandrese 9y ago
They are a success in that people ride them regularly. Less of a success in that the tickets are often more expensive than a comparable flight, although secondary factors like security, terminal location, and legroom can make the train the preferable option even at a higher price.
- herbst 9y ago
  Train rides <= 3 hours are also often faster than the related flight when you account for airports usually beeing more far out of the city and all the time you waste within the airport. Also if you connect 2 cities without major airport (which would lead to having to change plane) i found this rule to be true for 7+ hours train rides as well.
djsumdog 9y ago
The US had the largest rail system in the world and more streetcar lines that Europe not over 100 years ago. They're all gone now. Here's a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cjfTG8DbwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cjfTG8DbwA "America is too spread out" is a bullshit argument. You put the rail architecture back in and you'll watch communities draw inward, zoning laws merge and neighborhoods get closer and more sustainable. Access to transportation is the biggest factor in being able to move out of poverty. That's not a subjective statement. It's been verified in study after study. Don't like living next to people and hate public transport? That's fine. There are tons of Europeans and Australians like that who live outside the cities and drive. They have that choice, because the cities are affordable and livable. Every Australian capital has commuter rail except Darwin, Hobart and ACT. In America, it's incredibly difficult to live without a car in almost every major city and most of our capitals, and we have a far far greater population density.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > "America is too spread out" is a bullshit argument. It may well be a bullshit argument, but it's also an argument that I did not make. My point was entirely that the markets do not seem to value high speed rail highly enough to justify its costs, and that the U.S. (for its faults) largely represents this low market valuation of high speed rail by not financing it. You seem to make an argument with the assumption that you know the utility of high speed rail is higher than the cost, I avoid this assumption. High speed rail is apparently worth less than it costs, state pricing distortions included. You might like it, it might be attractive, it might make things more dense, you might think that's a good thing... and none of that matters because apparently it's just not worth it to the market which will be tasked with funding it, all things considered.
  - herbst 9y ago
    IMO this shouldnt be a cost decission but quality of life for the tax payer. Pretty sure governments arent ment to be profitable in all what they do.
kylegordon 9y ago
TGV falls into the same class as Thalys, ICE, etc When a Thalys route was opened between Paris and Brussels (200 miles), Air France withdrew their flights and booked seats on the train instead. American, Delta and JetA also operate a code sharing route on the train route. Beyond Brussels, Skyteam group uses Thalys to link Brussels with Schipol. So, yeah, link cities as you would with plane (airport time included), and High Speed Rail works. I've used it, and it's a vast improvement over wasting time in airports and jumping through air travel 'security' hoops.
adrianN 9y ago
High speed rail connects city centers with comfortable, fast, dependable transportation. Look for example at the Shinkansen system in Japan. You can travel from Tokyo to Kyoto (~450km by car) in about three hours door to door for about a hundred dollars. The trains run every couple of minutes. Shinkansen are very popular in Japan. I don't know how you could not call them a success story.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  > Shinkansen are very popular in Japan. I don't know how you could not call them a success story. The Shinkansen may have some popular (profitable) lines, but it took a long time for the service to shed the lines which were built for purely political reasons under JNR. The fascist approach to building rail lines relies on hiding the true cost of rail (across private land) in subsidies and loans which are structured out of successors and written off by the government.

rmc 9y ago

OSM is popular in Europe, and Germany in particular. So when the German train nerds are mapping and choosing colours, they tend to have a European focus.

Nelkins 9y ago

Where does it say what the colors mean? What is yellow? And the dotted lines?