4 ms·

They've been indoctrinated into a deeply subversive ideology. That ideology commands them to believe god and religion before country, before mere laws of man. R

by cmurf 9y ago

They've been indoctrinated into a deeply subversive ideology. That ideology commands them to believe god and religion before country, before mere laws of man. Rural America believes this is a Christian nation, founded on Christianity. And there is to be no discussion of this. The ideology itself is what broke down any chance of conversation. Rural Americans have no idea "in God We Trust" is not original, that it was added in 1956, that "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance in 1954, they have no idea that Article 6 of the constitution explicitly says no religious test will be required to hold public office, and they insist that the 1st amendment does not make the U.S. a secular state. And they think it's a lie that there is such a thing called the Treaty of Tripoli, written by Washington and Adams, ratified unanimously by teh senate, that says "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". In the original case of Loving vs Virgina (1967), the state judge pointed to the bible, chapter and verse, as moral and legal justification for anti-miscegenation laws. Interracial marriage was illegal in nearly 1/2 the states up until that time. And the same arguments then were the same nut bag religious arguments used most recently with those opposed to gay marriage, and transgendered people having equal rights. Is there really a conversation to be had here? The racism, bigotry, misogyny, sure they all pre-exist religion, but they are enhanced, coddled, protected, by the most popular variety of it in rural white America. I would never work or live there. I don't even care to visit. And I see no time in the near future where this will not be true. They do not want their culture to change. There is nothing wrong with it. Everything wrong is with the gays, the godless, the Muslims, and the illegal immigrants stealing white American jobs, and sluts having abortions. And they have a president who perfectly represents them in helping them blame others for their problems.

AnimalMuppet 9y ago
> Rural Americans have no idea "in God We Trust" is not original, that it was added in 1956... 'And this be our motto-"In God is our Trust"'. From the 4th verse of The Star-Spangled Banner, written in 1814. (You did know that it has four verses, right?) Now, The Star-Spangled Banner wasn't officially the national anthem until 1931, and "In God We Trust" wasn't officially the national motto even then. But the idea of that as the motto is far from new, even if it wasn't officially true.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  I know that the Star-Spangled Banner was set to the tune of the Anacreonic Hymn, which is a drinking song, so if anybody ever got as far as the fourth verse without forgetting any of the lyrics, they're definitely singing it wrong.
entee 9y ago
While I understand what you’re saying I’d respectfully disagree in places. You point out that most of these ideas predate religion and I think most people hold the more backward ideas due to habit and overall culture rather than explicit religion. Also I believe that one of the most potent forces for greater acceptance for LGBT people has been that more and more people are coming out and that people realize, “oh hey that’s my daughter or my cousin”. I think it’s helpful also to recognize that while it is indisputably right that LGBT people have full equal rights and standing, that idea is relatively new to the broader discourse. It’s going to take a little time for it to fully sink in everywhere, the wrong perspective has a large historical head start. I firmly believe it will happen, just over 50 years ago we had explicit Jim Crow in the south. While there’s still a ways to go, it’s amazing how much progress we’ve made in such short time. But for that to happen I think we have to be a bit patient and willing to talk to people whose views we might find cringeworthy. You can’t persuade someone you’re not communicating with.
- cmurf 9y ago
  Tell the dead they should be a bit more patient. Most gays don't come out of the closet in religious families, they fear for their life for a reason. The mere fact those who do come out sometimes are a potent change for their families, proves how impotent the religion is when it comes to protecting those same LGBT who put their lives on the line when they come out. Just two days ago, a southern evangelical asserted to me, "literally gays brought about the end of nations, being gay should not be legal let alone gay marriage." Listen to a translation of this: Gay's are seditious, they are traitors to their country, they commit treason. In the U.S. the only crime that calls for the death penalty is treason. Considering this merely cringeworthy, needing patience and persuasion? I think the body count of dead LGBT, black, brown, women, children, Muslim, Jew, and many other minorities, is sufficiently high that no more such coddling should be on the agenda. Advocacy of violence and discrimination should be taken seriously, not suddenly papered over with calls to patience and persuasion just because it's backed by religious belief. Too many people in urban areas have no concept of violent religion and probably think it doesn't exist in America. Newsflash city people! You're ignorant! I for one am not amazed at all, I'm appalled and feel betrayed by how long the progress thus far has taken.

by cmurf 9y ago

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

> Rural Americans have no idea "in God We Trust" is not original, that it was added in 1956... 'And this be our motto-"In God is our Trust"'. From the 4th verse of The Star-Spangled Banner, written in 1814. (You did know that it has four verses, right?) Now, The Star-Spangled Banner wasn't officially the national anthem until 1931, and "In God We Trust" wasn't officially the national motto even then. But the idea of that as the motto is far from new, even if it wasn't officially true.

logfromblammo 9y ago
I know that the Star-Spangled Banner was set to the tune of the Anacreonic Hymn, which is a drinking song, so if anybody ever got as far as the fourth verse without forgetting any of the lyrics, they're definitely singing it wrong.

entee 9y ago

While I understand what you’re saying I’d respectfully disagree in places. You point out that most of these ideas predate religion and I think most people hold the more backward ideas due to habit and overall culture rather than explicit religion. Also I believe that one of the most potent forces for greater acceptance for LGBT people has been that more and more people are coming out and that people realize, “oh hey that’s my daughter or my cousin”. I think it’s helpful also to recognize that while it is indisputably right that LGBT people have full equal rights and standing, that idea is relatively new to the broader discourse. It’s going to take a little time for it to fully sink in everywhere, the wrong perspective has a large historical head start. I firmly believe it will happen, just over 50 years ago we had explicit Jim Crow in the south. While there’s still a ways to go, it’s amazing how much progress we’ve made in such short time. But for that to happen I think we have to be a bit patient and willing to talk to people whose views we might find cringeworthy. You can’t persuade someone you’re not communicating with.

cmurf 9y ago
Tell the dead they should be a bit more patient. Most gays don't come out of the closet in religious families, they fear for their life for a reason. The mere fact those who do come out sometimes are a potent change for their families, proves how impotent the religion is when it comes to protecting those same LGBT who put their lives on the line when they come out. Just two days ago, a southern evangelical asserted to me, "literally gays brought about the end of nations, being gay should not be legal let alone gay marriage." Listen to a translation of this: Gay's are seditious, they are traitors to their country, they commit treason. In the U.S. the only crime that calls for the death penalty is treason. Considering this merely cringeworthy, needing patience and persuasion? I think the body count of dead LGBT, black, brown, women, children, Muslim, Jew, and many other minorities, is sufficiently high that no more such coddling should be on the agenda. Advocacy of violence and discrimination should be taken seriously, not suddenly papered over with calls to patience and persuasion just because it's backed by religious belief. Too many people in urban areas have no concept of violent religion and probably think it doesn't exist in America. Newsflash city people! You're ignorant! I for one am not amazed at all, I'm appalled and feel betrayed by how long the progress thus far has taken.