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California isn't denying people fundamental rights. That's the difference. "Who cares about home ownership when you can use whatever public toilet you want!"

California isn't denying people fundamental rights. That's the difference. "Who cares about home ownership when you can use whatever public toilet you want!" You mean they're allowed to exist in public? If you are not allowed to use the bathroom that corresponds to your identity, you're basically not allowed to use the bathroom in public at all. Which means you're not really allowed to be in public at all.

AnimalMuppet 9y ago
You know, a couple weeks ago, I was reading a link (from HN, IIRC) about liberal (really!) feminists who didn't want to share a public bathroom with someone who was genetically male but self-described as female. They viewed it as males defining what female is. The article went on to describe how feminists who hold such views have been subject to literal physical attack by others on the left. I'm pretty sure I can paint something in that as "denying people fundamental rights"...
Helmet 9y ago
This is the sort of reasoning and rhetoric that pushes people like me, political moderates, away from the left. If I’m following you correctly here, because you can’t use whichever public toilet you want, you are denied a fundamental right, stripped of all public personhood, and not allowed to even venture outside at all. Are you being serious or are you trolling me?
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  I never meant me, personally. But a trans person, absolutely. Having to use a misgendered bathroom can not only be extremely uncomfortable, it can be extremely dangerous. A trans woman going into a men's room faces a very real threat of rape or assault. And, quite frankly, being unable to empathise with those who are different than you kinda indicates to me you never were inclined to the left, and used that opening paragraph to drum up fake support.
empthought 9y ago
Why not let anyone use any toilet regardless of identity? If it's unjust to segregate public facilities on the basis of sex, it's certainly unjust to segregate said facilities on the basis of gender identity.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  "Why not let anyone use any toilet regardless of identity?" That's the idea behind single person restroom facilities, and it's a pretty good one. Unfortunately, in many places it just isn't feasible to renovate the existing facilities. And having a multi user restroom not be set up like that exposes people to the same dangers as if a trans woman was forced to use the men's room.
  - empthought 9y ago
    What does a single-person facility have to do with it? Why is it legitimate to segregate multi-person facilities based on gender identity but not on sex? If men’s restrooms are dangerous for trans women then certainly they are dangerous for gay or gender-nonconforming men as well. These men certainly have as much right to avoid a dangerous situation as trans women do, no?

AnimalMuppet 9y ago

You know, a couple weeks ago, I was reading a link (from HN, IIRC) about liberal (really!) feminists who didn't want to share a public bathroom with someone who was genetically male but self-described as female. They viewed it as males defining what female is. The article went on to describe how feminists who hold such views have been subject to literal physical attack by others on the left. I'm pretty sure I can paint something in that as "denying people fundamental rights"...

Helmet 9y ago

This is the sort of reasoning and rhetoric that pushes people like me, political moderates, away from the left. If I’m following you correctly here, because you can’t use whichever public toilet you want, you are denied a fundamental right, stripped of all public personhood, and not allowed to even venture outside at all. Are you being serious or are you trolling me?

s73ver_ 9y ago
I never meant me, personally. But a trans person, absolutely. Having to use a misgendered bathroom can not only be extremely uncomfortable, it can be extremely dangerous. A trans woman going into a men's room faces a very real threat of rape or assault. And, quite frankly, being unable to empathise with those who are different than you kinda indicates to me you never were inclined to the left, and used that opening paragraph to drum up fake support.

empthought 9y ago

Why not let anyone use any toilet regardless of identity? If it's unjust to segregate public facilities on the basis of sex, it's certainly unjust to segregate said facilities on the basis of gender identity.

s73ver_ 9y ago
"Why not let anyone use any toilet regardless of identity?" That's the idea behind single person restroom facilities, and it's a pretty good one. Unfortunately, in many places it just isn't feasible to renovate the existing facilities. And having a multi user restroom not be set up like that exposes people to the same dangers as if a trans woman was forced to use the men's room.
- empthought 9y ago
  What does a single-person facility have to do with it? Why is it legitimate to segregate multi-person facilities based on gender identity but not on sex? If men’s restrooms are dangerous for trans women then certainly they are dangerous for gay or gender-nonconforming men as well. These men certainly have as much right to avoid a dangerous situation as trans women do, no?