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> PHEVs are no less EVs than pure EVs from the technology perspective. What? This doesn't make any sense. From wikipedia PHEVs have > an on-board internal com

> PHEVs are no less EVs than pure EVs from the technology perspective. What? This doesn't make any sense. From wikipedia PHEVs have > an on-board internal combustion engine and generator. If the factory that makes these cars is building ICE engines and putting them in cars, and consumers have cars with ICE engines in them, then "from the technology perspective" there is a massive difference! A car manufactured to burn gas sometimes is not an electric car. The patents on the car have gasoline engines. The people who make it are investing in and building gas engines. The people buying the cars are assisting in development of gas engines. From a technology perspective there are huge, huge differences. I'm not against the bridge technology. I get that it has uses. But it's not an electric car.

BoorishBears 9y ago
> PHEVs are no less EVs than pure EVs from the technology perspective. > What? This doesn't make any sense. It makes more sense if you drive one. The EV range lets you drive as a full EV for 99% of your drives, and a very efficient hybrid for long ones (since the battery can reserve enough energy to let the engine only work at it's most efficient range). I went almost 3,000 miles before needing to put gas in mine, and only needed that because of a 200 mile trip I took. Once you exceed something like 25 miles of EV-only range, a PHEV is closer to an EV than a Hybrid.
- cryptoz 9y ago
  I've been trying to make the point that I'm not just talking about the driving experience of a single car. I'm talking about the grander society we live in, with millions of these cars operating, and the huge factories that make these cars, the direction of the company making them, the decisions to not go full electric, but to market it like this, etc. I'm sure the driving experience of these cars is similar. That's not the point. The cars themselves are extremely different in their technology and manufacture. Calling a hybrid an electric car is misleading and wrong. It's a hybrid. Edit: I'm no longer allowed to post, HN is telling me to "slow down". So here is my response to the comment below. I am not misunderstanding how these cars work. I am aware of how they work. They are manufactured with a gasoline engine. Whether or not it is used by the end consumer is irrelevant to the point I am making. A car that is manufactured with a gasoline engine is not an electric car.
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    Again, I think these PHEVs on a grand scale, will be a huge benefit and are more practical than a jump to EVs. The amount of investment needed to facilitate EVs on a grand scale involves orders of magnitude more money and manufacturing (which generates pollution itself) than PHEVs. PHEVs will be able to reduce a huge portion of the conditions that we burn gas which create the most pollution. The problem with calling a PHEV with 50 miles of range a plain "hybrid" is the public has a clear idea of what a hybrid is, EV range measured in feet instead of miles. High range PHEVs are EVs that become hybrids when the battery dies. I don't have a problem with calling them electric cars as long as we also have the BEV designation when it comes down to specifications, because the net benefit of PHEVs become mainstream will be massive, and only serves to open the way for BEVs.
  - mhermher 9y ago
    Maybe you misunderstand how these cars work. They are fully electric if you want them to be. You never have to put a drop of gasoline in them if you don't want. Does that make sense? They're not hybrids in a way that the Prius is a hybrid. I think maybe you haven't picked up that distinction. Your comments sort of don't make sense otherwise.
danans 9y ago
> A car manufactured to burn gas sometimes is not an electric car. The patents on the car have gasoline engines. Right, that's why they are called PHEVs (Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles). What matters is how they are used. If PHEVs are used in their plugin-electric mode most of the time (why would someone pay a premium for one if that weren't the case?), then they are operating essentially as electric vehicles. > The people who make it are investing in and building gas engines. The people buying the cars are assisting in development of gas engines. Unless one takes an oath not to ever be ferried in an ICE powered vehicle, I don't know how you can avoid indirectly financing the development of ICEs. Also, it's not like ICE technology itself is 'bad' anyways, just that its time powering mass market vehicles is coming to an end with the rise of battery electric propulsion. ICEs aren't going to disappear as a technology, but will likely be focused on specific niches where they have utility, rather than in mass market vehicles.
- petre 9y ago
  PHEVs will pretty much be the norm until we get mass market EVs with 300+ mile range and 10 min charge times.

BoorishBears 9y ago

> PHEVs are no less EVs than pure EVs from the technology perspective. > What? This doesn't make any sense. It makes more sense if you drive one. The EV range lets you drive as a full EV for 99% of your drives, and a very efficient hybrid for long ones (since the battery can reserve enough energy to let the engine only work at it's most efficient range). I went almost 3,000 miles before needing to put gas in mine, and only needed that because of a 200 mile trip I took. Once you exceed something like 25 miles of EV-only range, a PHEV is closer to an EV than a Hybrid.

cryptoz 9y ago
I've been trying to make the point that I'm not just talking about the driving experience of a single car. I'm talking about the grander society we live in, with millions of these cars operating, and the huge factories that make these cars, the direction of the company making them, the decisions to not go full electric, but to market it like this, etc. I'm sure the driving experience of these cars is similar. That's not the point. The cars themselves are extremely different in their technology and manufacture. Calling a hybrid an electric car is misleading and wrong. It's a hybrid. Edit: I'm no longer allowed to post, HN is telling me to "slow down". So here is my response to the comment below. I am not misunderstanding how these cars work. I am aware of how they work. They are manufactured with a gasoline engine. Whether or not it is used by the end consumer is irrelevant to the point I am making. A car that is manufactured with a gasoline engine is not an electric car.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  Again, I think these PHEVs on a grand scale, will be a huge benefit and are more practical than a jump to EVs. The amount of investment needed to facilitate EVs on a grand scale involves orders of magnitude more money and manufacturing (which generates pollution itself) than PHEVs. PHEVs will be able to reduce a huge portion of the conditions that we burn gas which create the most pollution. The problem with calling a PHEV with 50 miles of range a plain "hybrid" is the public has a clear idea of what a hybrid is, EV range measured in feet instead of miles. High range PHEVs are EVs that become hybrids when the battery dies. I don't have a problem with calling them electric cars as long as we also have the BEV designation when it comes down to specifications, because the net benefit of PHEVs become mainstream will be massive, and only serves to open the way for BEVs.
- mhermher 9y ago
  Maybe you misunderstand how these cars work. They are fully electric if you want them to be. You never have to put a drop of gasoline in them if you don't want. Does that make sense? They're not hybrids in a way that the Prius is a hybrid. I think maybe you haven't picked up that distinction. Your comments sort of don't make sense otherwise.

danans 9y ago

> A car manufactured to burn gas sometimes is not an electric car. The patents on the car have gasoline engines. Right, that's why they are called PHEVs (Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles). What matters is how they are used. If PHEVs are used in their plugin-electric mode most of the time (why would someone pay a premium for one if that weren't the case?), then they are operating essentially as electric vehicles. > The people who make it are investing in and building gas engines. The people buying the cars are assisting in development of gas engines. Unless one takes an oath not to ever be ferried in an ICE powered vehicle, I don't know how you can avoid indirectly financing the development of ICEs. Also, it's not like ICE technology itself is 'bad' anyways, just that its time powering mass market vehicles is coming to an end with the rise of battery electric propulsion. ICEs aren't going to disappear as a technology, but will likely be focused on specific niches where they have utility, rather than in mass market vehicles.

petre 9y ago
PHEVs will pretty much be the norm until we get mass market EVs with 300+ mile range and 10 min charge times.