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Things said by various EU/French/German/British officials at various times about leaving the EU: Leaving the EU is suicide. It's self harm. There must be a t

Things said by various EU/French/German/British officials at various times about leaving the EU: Leaving the EU is suicide. It's self harm. There must be a threat, there must be a risk, there must be a price for leaving (Hollande) "Welcome to hell", said to the UK's negotiator on reaching the negotiation table. "Brexit itself is already punishment enough" (Tusk) Voting to leave will destroy 500,000-800,000 jobs due to "uncertainty" over how the EU will react (this claimed turned out to be false in the end). The UK financial industry will be forced by the EU to move tens of thousands of people/jobs to the EU. Also all flights will be grounded. This is the "price" of leaving. -- It is fair to say that in general everything said and done by the EU is designed to cause maximum damage, always with the caveat that continued automatic obedience to EU law and courts will make the "pain" go away (as they put it). And is the UK really walking away because it doesn't like EU trading regulations? I thought they're trying their damnedest to continue benefiting from those regulations The primary "benefit" of complying with those regulations is the EU does not impose bans on your products. The regulations themselves are often badly thought out - that's what this whole thread is about, badly thought out GDPR regulations causing US businesses to give up trying to sell to the EU (effectively the EU has created massive new trade barriers with the rest of the world).

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
>> The primary "benefit" of complying with those regulations is the EU does not impose bans on your products. The EU is not banning any products from the UK. The benefit that the UK gets is is tarriff-free access to the common market. Any trade, with anyone is subject to tarriffs, so that's a real benefit- unlike any imagined harm coming from "bans" that never happened.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Well this is getting a bit off topic but that is not correct. The EU has been quite clear that it will ban people and companies in its jurisdiction from buying financial products from the UK: not impose tariffs but rather implement outright bans. And they are not willing to negotiate on that point. It is seen as a necessary 'punishment'. They are also talking about banning member state citizens from buying tickets from British airlines in situations where they currently can. And possibly banning all flights from the UK to the EU. Again, bans, not tariffs. Lastly, I note that the effect of GDPR is that effectively "Europeans" are now banned from buying training products from this US training firm. It's not technically a government ban, it's more like major encouragement to the outside world to implement their own private sector bans, but the end result is identical: you cannot buy at any price.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
    Like the trade ban you mentioned above, any other sort of ban, such as banning the buying of financial products from the UK, or banning flights from the UK to the EU is pure fantasy. What is really the case is that Brexit risks causing British financial instutitions to lose their financial passporting rights, that allow them to trade in the EU. As to flights, the risk here is that, without other international flight agreements for some UK companies (such as Ryanair and EasyJet) other than EU agreements, such companies risk losing the right to fly outside of Europe, or within the EU. Both of the above are the result of international agreements being rendered invalid because of Brexit, and not some sort of punishment that the EU decided to bestow upon the UK. Obviously EU competitors will step in immediately and eat the UK's lunch, wherever they find the opportunity. But I don't know what else anyone could expect. I understand the British are great believers in a free market, after all. Indeed, as far as the UK is concerned, the market after Brexit is going to be almost completely unregulated.
    - peoplewindow 9y ago
      "Losing passporting rights" is just a bureaucratic and obfuscated way of saying "ban". You say tomato, I say tomahto. Obviously all such bans are implemented via the granting or revocation of various kinds of license. The reality is that nothing about finance or flying will have changed on exit day+1. What will have changed is the UK's obedience to the EU's power structures. The EU has stated flat out it will refuse to come to some new agreement in these areas: it would rather impose trading bans. And these ARE bans. You are trying to wriggle out of this, it is a form of psychological denial. You will find that the EU forbids you from making trades with these firms. They could easily continue to allow them - certainly the UK is willing to cooperate on finding alternative deals and compromises - but they choose not to because of their own over-arching political agenda. Obviously EU competitors will step in immediately and eat the UK's lunch, wherever they find the opportunity. Ah yes. Like how the USSR experienced a flourishing ecosystem of strong competitors to western firms due to the iron curtain. I think the EU "competitors" would have done that if they could have done already. They have failed to do so. Having been outcompeted, they now hope for their competition to be banned. Pathetic, really.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

>> The primary "benefit" of complying with those regulations is the EU does not impose bans on your products. The EU is not banning any products from the UK. The benefit that the UK gets is is tarriff-free access to the common market. Any trade, with anyone is subject to tarriffs, so that's a real benefit- unlike any imagined harm coming from "bans" that never happened.

peoplewindow 9y ago
Well this is getting a bit off topic but that is not correct. The EU has been quite clear that it will ban people and companies in its jurisdiction from buying financial products from the UK: not impose tariffs but rather implement outright bans. And they are not willing to negotiate on that point. It is seen as a necessary 'punishment'. They are also talking about banning member state citizens from buying tickets from British airlines in situations where they currently can. And possibly banning all flights from the UK to the EU. Again, bans, not tariffs. Lastly, I note that the effect of GDPR is that effectively "Europeans" are now banned from buying training products from this US training firm. It's not technically a government ban, it's more like major encouragement to the outside world to implement their own private sector bans, but the end result is identical: you cannot buy at any price.
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
  Like the trade ban you mentioned above, any other sort of ban, such as banning the buying of financial products from the UK, or banning flights from the UK to the EU is pure fantasy. What is really the case is that Brexit risks causing British financial instutitions to lose their financial passporting rights, that allow them to trade in the EU. As to flights, the risk here is that, without other international flight agreements for some UK companies (such as Ryanair and EasyJet) other than EU agreements, such companies risk losing the right to fly outside of Europe, or within the EU. Both of the above are the result of international agreements being rendered invalid because of Brexit, and not some sort of punishment that the EU decided to bestow upon the UK. Obviously EU competitors will step in immediately and eat the UK's lunch, wherever they find the opportunity. But I don't know what else anyone could expect. I understand the British are great believers in a free market, after all. Indeed, as far as the UK is concerned, the market after Brexit is going to be almost completely unregulated.
  - peoplewindow 9y ago
    "Losing passporting rights" is just a bureaucratic and obfuscated way of saying "ban". You say tomato, I say tomahto. Obviously all such bans are implemented via the granting or revocation of various kinds of license. The reality is that nothing about finance or flying will have changed on exit day+1. What will have changed is the UK's obedience to the EU's power structures. The EU has stated flat out it will refuse to come to some new agreement in these areas: it would rather impose trading bans. And these ARE bans. You are trying to wriggle out of this, it is a form of psychological denial. You will find that the EU forbids you from making trades with these firms. They could easily continue to allow them - certainly the UK is willing to cooperate on finding alternative deals and compromises - but they choose not to because of their own over-arching political agenda. Obviously EU competitors will step in immediately and eat the UK's lunch, wherever they find the opportunity. Ah yes. Like how the USSR experienced a flourishing ecosystem of strong competitors to western firms due to the iron curtain. I think the EU "competitors" would have done that if they could have done already. They have failed to do so. Having been outcompeted, they now hope for their competition to be banned. Pathetic, really.