4 ms·

I think you are right. Just the other day there was a posting in our anonymous university group chat and someone complained how she thinks she is unable to star

by Jhsto 9y ago

I think you are right. Just the other day there was a posting in our anonymous university group chat and someone complained how she thinks she is unable to start and finish masters degree and its thesis work. The first suggestion which adviced taking time off to re-evaluate her choices of continuing with graduate studies were downvoted. Instead, replies supporting going through the masters with various lifehacks, even though the OP clearly states she doesn't want to do it, were upvoted. I understand its natural for students to pep talk their peers to study more, but I don't understand why controversial suggestions are being dismissed. I almost feel like these calls for help are just seeking validation to continue hoop jumping instead of actually finding alternative ways to fix the root cause. It makes me sad to think that my peers don't think they are ready for working life until they graduate, whilst I would, as an employer, much rather hire someone capable of self-inspection and listening of people with differentiating viewpoints.

Bartweiss 9y ago
There's an experience I had in undergrad that's always stuck with me. The computer science department and the careers office jointly brought in some startup founders to talk about founding or joining startups and take questions; it was really quite a good idea. Someone asked about degrees and majors - do you need a Master's, which degrees are 'relevant', and so on. The first few founders hemmed and hawed, said "technical skills from any degree" and "undergrad is enough" and so on. The last founder didn't play the game. His answer was: "I'm not worried about your name on a sheet of paper. If you're good at what you do, I'll hire you." Cue nervous laughter from the moderator, and a gentle prompt: "but of course it's worth finishing up school for the people who are already here, those are valuable skills, right?" Founder: "I guess I was unclear. If you drop out today, I will hire you. I recommend it." The next year that panel wasn't repeated.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Yet we all know that virtually every programming job advertised requires a computer science degree, I'm not convinced it was good advice given the way most companies hire.
  - vvanders 9y ago
    Just because it's advertised doesn't mean it's actually required. Much like companies asking for 10 years of Rust experience, from what I've seen qualifications tend to matter less as you get further along in your career.
  - leetcrew 9y ago
    the founder was basically saying that, if he somehow knew before the fact that you were good, he would hire you. he certainly would not just hire an arbitrary college dropout. it's essentially a vacuous conditional that sidesteps the fact that a college degree is widely considered a signifier of some minimal level of skill and will of course be one of the primary ways that applicants are evaluated, unless they somehow have substantial work experience at the age of 20.
    - Jhsto 9y ago
      > unless they somehow have substantial work experience at the age of 20 This is going to be very anecdotal, but that merit is even more run by buzzwords than qualitative inspection of one's skills compared to a degree. I had the privilege to be employed as 20-year old in Silicon Valley as a foreigner, but I did not find myself doing more challenging work than I had before. However, namedropping Silicon Valley on my CV had huge implications back in my home country once I returned (because ironically I did not have a degree). The interesting part is that not a single workplace back in my home country has yet conducted a technical review for me, yet I have been given offer letters. What I am saying is that while some people feel like a BSc is a dumb obligation, the path of having a prestigious CV isn't much better. Instead, if you happen to have one, the chances are that some CV buzzwords are regarded as, as you said about degrees: > considered a signifier of some minimal level of skill and will of course be one of the primary ways that applicants are evaluated Yet I find this alarmingly false. This has caused me to stray away of those companies, as I don't really want to be employed somewhere where people are hired like this either.
  - mikeokner 9y ago
    Every single job I've take has advertised that a degree is required. After joining, I've always had at least one co-worker without a degree (usually in some sort of respected, senior role). A degree certainly makes things easier, but everything in business is negotiable.

by Jhsto 9y ago

Bartweiss 9y ago

There's an experience I had in undergrad that's always stuck with me. The computer science department and the careers office jointly brought in some startup founders to talk about founding or joining startups and take questions; it was really quite a good idea. Someone asked about degrees and majors - do you need a Master's, which degrees are 'relevant', and so on. The first few founders hemmed and hawed, said "technical skills from any degree" and "undergrad is enough" and so on. The last founder didn't play the game. His answer was: "I'm not worried about your name on a sheet of paper. If you're good at what you do, I'll hire you." Cue nervous laughter from the moderator, and a gentle prompt: "but of course it's worth finishing up school for the people who are already here, those are valuable skills, right?" Founder: "I guess I was unclear. If you drop out today, I will hire you. I recommend it." The next year that panel wasn't repeated.

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Yet we all know that virtually every programming job advertised requires a computer science degree, I'm not convinced it was good advice given the way most companies hire.
- vvanders 9y ago
  Just because it's advertised doesn't mean it's actually required. Much like companies asking for 10 years of Rust experience, from what I've seen qualifications tend to matter less as you get further along in your career.
- leetcrew 9y ago
  the founder was basically saying that, if he somehow knew before the fact that you were good, he would hire you. he certainly would not just hire an arbitrary college dropout. it's essentially a vacuous conditional that sidesteps the fact that a college degree is widely considered a signifier of some minimal level of skill and will of course be one of the primary ways that applicants are evaluated, unless they somehow have substantial work experience at the age of 20.
  - Jhsto 9y ago
    > unless they somehow have substantial work experience at the age of 20 This is going to be very anecdotal, but that merit is even more run by buzzwords than qualitative inspection of one's skills compared to a degree. I had the privilege to be employed as 20-year old in Silicon Valley as a foreigner, but I did not find myself doing more challenging work than I had before. However, namedropping Silicon Valley on my CV had huge implications back in my home country once I returned (because ironically I did not have a degree). The interesting part is that not a single workplace back in my home country has yet conducted a technical review for me, yet I have been given offer letters. What I am saying is that while some people feel like a BSc is a dumb obligation, the path of having a prestigious CV isn't much better. Instead, if you happen to have one, the chances are that some CV buzzwords are regarded as, as you said about degrees: > considered a signifier of some minimal level of skill and will of course be one of the primary ways that applicants are evaluated Yet I find this alarmingly false. This has caused me to stray away of those companies, as I don't really want to be employed somewhere where people are hired like this either.
- mikeokner 9y ago
  Every single job I've take has advertised that a degree is required. After joining, I've always had at least one co-worker without a degree (usually in some sort of respected, senior role). A degree certainly makes things easier, but everything in business is negotiable.