4 ms·

I'm totally in favour of electric cars, but I'm surprised the article never mentioned the problem of sourcing all the power. There have been a lot of contradic

I'm totally in favour of electric cars, but I'm surprised the article never mentioned the problem of sourcing all the power. There have been a lot of contradictory claims over how many more power stations would be needed for a fully-electric future, with some sources claiming the UK alone would need an extra ten nuclear power plants, and other sources massively downplaying that, but clearly if everyone was driving an EV by, say, 2040, then that only gives us 20 years to work out and deliver the answer. NIMBYism and hyper-inflated public infrastructure costs mean this could be a significant problem, both in terms of cost and feasibility.

cesarb 9y ago
Most electric cars will charge at night, which is when power consumption is currently at its lowest. Power stations (and other parts of the power infrastructure) have to be sized to the daytime peak, plus a safety margin to cope with at least the loss of any single element. So until the extra consumption from cars charging overnight grows above the difference between the nighttime low and the daytime peak, not much extra infrastructure is needed. On the other hand, there will be cars charging at daytime (either at fast chargers, or while the owner is at work); and there are some power stations that can only work during the day. I don't know which of these two factors is bigger.
alex_duf 9y ago
I hope that we never reach the point where everyone buys an electric car. By then most big cities will heavily rely on a fleet of car pool, potentially self driving. That decreases the number of needed cars by an order of magnitude.
- dagw 9y ago
  The number of cars is irrelevant when talking energy needs, only distance traveled matters. And I can definitely see how easily available self driving pool cars will increase rather than decrease the total distance driven, and thus increasing the total need for electricity.
  - alex_duf 9y ago
    That a good point, I completely missed that
- 3chelon 9y ago
  Yes, I think autonomous/shared vehicles could be a massive factor in reducing the number of vehicles, but it wouldn't reduce the power consumption unless the number of actual journeys was reduced. A shared EV running 24/7 would use a huge amount of power. And that's assuming we could get people to share. Cars seem to be unique in bringing out the very worst in humanity. Jeremy Clarkson, for example.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
On the other side of the spectrum, there's been reports of some countries having a negative energy price at some points, thanks to all the windmills and such generating so much energy there's a surplus. Pump those into charging cars (during the day or night), and they can also act as components in the smart grid, switching charge on and off depending on peaks in the power grid / power generation. I wonder if fusion power will become viable within the next 50 years, and whether it gives us fuck-you amounts of power at low cost. Probably not, nuclear power is far from free too.
- 3chelon 9y ago
  Well this brings up another related but often unmentioned aspect to the debate. Governments get heaps of revenue from taxing fossil fuels. If people managed to sidestep that by using renewable (yeah, or fusion!) power, what will governments do? I'm about 100% certain that in the UK they will slap a massive tax on all electricity used to charge EVs. TANSTAAFL, as Robert Heinlein said.

cesarb 9y ago

Most electric cars will charge at night, which is when power consumption is currently at its lowest. Power stations (and other parts of the power infrastructure) have to be sized to the daytime peak, plus a safety margin to cope with at least the loss of any single element. So until the extra consumption from cars charging overnight grows above the difference between the nighttime low and the daytime peak, not much extra infrastructure is needed. On the other hand, there will be cars charging at daytime (either at fast chargers, or while the owner is at work); and there are some power stations that can only work during the day. I don't know which of these two factors is bigger.

alex_duf 9y ago

I hope that we never reach the point where everyone buys an electric car. By then most big cities will heavily rely on a fleet of car pool, potentially self driving. That decreases the number of needed cars by an order of magnitude.

dagw 9y ago
The number of cars is irrelevant when talking energy needs, only distance traveled matters. And I can definitely see how easily available self driving pool cars will increase rather than decrease the total distance driven, and thus increasing the total need for electricity.
- alex_duf 9y ago
  That a good point, I completely missed that
3chelon 9y ago
Yes, I think autonomous/shared vehicles could be a massive factor in reducing the number of vehicles, but it wouldn't reduce the power consumption unless the number of actual journeys was reduced. A shared EV running 24/7 would use a huge amount of power. And that's assuming we could get people to share. Cars seem to be unique in bringing out the very worst in humanity. Jeremy Clarkson, for example.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

On the other side of the spectrum, there's been reports of some countries having a negative energy price at some points, thanks to all the windmills and such generating so much energy there's a surplus. Pump those into charging cars (during the day or night), and they can also act as components in the smart grid, switching charge on and off depending on peaks in the power grid / power generation. I wonder if fusion power will become viable within the next 50 years, and whether it gives us fuck-you amounts of power at low cost. Probably not, nuclear power is far from free too.

3chelon 9y ago
Well this brings up another related but often unmentioned aspect to the debate. Governments get heaps of revenue from taxing fossil fuels. If people managed to sidestep that by using renewable (yeah, or fusion!) power, what will governments do? I'm about 100% certain that in the UK they will slap a massive tax on all electricity used to charge EVs. TANSTAAFL, as Robert Heinlein said.